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No Notice of Late Fee

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No Notice of Late Fee

Postby TootieFrutie » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:14 pm

Hi I need help! My fiance and I have just notified our landlord that we will not be renewing our lease for a 4th year. We asked if they would write us a recommendation letter and thought they might since we were moving only due to space and have been ideal tenants. The office manager said that she would only write a recommendation if we paid them $300 in late fees. We never new that we had any late fees at all. For all we knew they received rent on time ever month. We asked her to tell us what months these were for and one was for rent received 1 day late over a year prior (in the previous lease term). The other two were questionable, especially without ever being notified. The office manager has our email addresses, phone numbers, and obviously our mailing addresses but we received nothing.

#1 Is a landlord required to give you a receipt of rent payment each month?

#2 Is a landlord required to notify you of any fee incurred throughout your leasing period, such as a late rent fee.

After resending an email requesting detail of these charges two times with no response, I called only to have the office manager hang up on me after telling me that she does not have to tell me when fees are assesed and that we actually should pay her $700 because she was just being nice to us. We are definitely being taken advantage of because we are moving and they can just garnish our deposit. How can we fight this? We don't have any money to pay a lawer because we just spent a ton on a new apartment and our wedding is in a few months. Please help!!
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Postby TenantNet » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:15 pm

#1 Is a landlord required to give you a receipt of rent payment each month?


Yes, if you request it.

#2 Is a landlord required to notify you of any fee incurred throughout your leasing period, such as a late rent fee.


Yes and no. The LL can add fees whenever they like, but a tenant can oppose the fees if they are imposed a long time after they supposedly accrued. What matters is what might happen in the context of a court proceeding.

The LL is jerking you around. Accept that you aren't going to get a recommendation. For your deposit, you can withhold paying the last month's rent and have the LL claim that as unpaid rent, but you would counter with the same amount as unreturned deposit. This can get complicated and messy. In the end, it will likely wash out if there are legitimate damages. I would not let the LL walk all over you. They are apparently trying to do that.

Hey, this is NY and this is what NY landlords do.
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Postby TootieFrutie » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:52 pm

Luckily we don't need a recommendation because we rented a wonderful apartment without one. Unfortunately we already paid our last months rent and I don't want them to withhold our deposit now.

Just to clarify, You are saying they don't have to tell me when they charge me a late fee? This woman can just tell me whenever she likes that I owe her money for rent that was alledgedly received (in one case) one day late in January 2012?

By the way I called them and the manager started yelling, telling me that she could charge me $700 dollars if she wanted and that she doesn't have to send me any proof of anything.

If I have to hire an attorney and win will I have to pay them out of my pocket or can I get the landlord to pay the legal fees?
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Re: No Notice of Late Fee

Postby Cranky Tenant » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:36 pm

TootieFrutie wrote:
#2 Is a landlord required to notify you of any fee incurred throughout your leasing period, such as a late rent fee.



Just my opinion but I'd guess if the landlord hasn't informed you of any fees and hasn't included them in your rent bill, there's no way you could actually owe him any additional fees. More likely your landlord, or whomever you spoke with on the phone, is trying to charge you $300 or $700 for a Letter of Recommendation.
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Postby TenantNet » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:49 am

For the deposit, you will need to go to the Attorney General's office or sue in Small Claims Court to get it back if they don't return it.

Of course they are inventing things. These are landlords and they get away with it. The fact that they never sent you any information on it will help your case.

When you move, take many photos, have witnesses, do a walk-through. This forum has many threads where tips on moving out are discussed. And make sure you get a receipt for the keys when you return them.
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Postby Emeraldstar » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:16 pm

Hi All
Agree with TN & Cranky...also look to your orginal lease on late fees. You can cross ref. your payments/cancelled checks to know if there is a pittance of a fee owed based on the one time you posted.
Just my take, I would go right over her head & notify LL direct RRR of intent to move & request a walk through prior to move out date & follow TN's advisement on how to doc the walk. After walk is complete & you move, again notify LL RRR of request of sec. dep. return to new address. Anyone who can manage tenant affairs in such a shady manner as you posted is acting like a thug, avoid them when you can.
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Postby TootieFrutie » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:47 pm

Thanks everyone for your comments and advise. I'm still not clear on whether they legally have to notify me of late fees though. Obviously there is no way for me to know my rent is received late unless Ireceived notice of a fee, but I don't know if it is a right that I have. The office manager said that she had been to court many times and was told that she never has to advise tenants of fees. There is no way that is true right? But is the law on my side?

I will assure that i am on top of the move out. I will photograph and will have the Broker (who I have a great relationship with) walk through the apartment as my witness on tape.

The problem with contacting Mr. Magnone (the landlord) directly is that I don't actually know how to get in touch with him without it going through the office manager. There is only one phone line and she apparently listens to the voicemails before she picks up the phone, screening all of the calls. All I have is a NJ PO Box so I can't go there and meet him in person either.

On a lighter note, the broker seems to think that he can talk the office manager down for me, but in the mean time I have contacted some friends to see who knows a good attorney. This whole thing sucks, and agreed that it is very shady.
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Postby Emeraldstar » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:14 pm

Hi All
Your bank statements should give some idea of a pattern when they cashed checks and if there appears to be some odd months where the checks are beyond the pattern you have a rough idea of months they may claim late. As for the LL search your municipality or state gov site for access to property listings. It may reveal an address for owner. However, what's important is that you notified LL for your records even if po boxed since who knows what mgr may fabricate. Keep detailed.
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Postby Cranky Tenant » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:25 pm

Don't believe anything this person says about court. It seems pretty obvious that you can't owe a late fee unless the landlord has sent you a bill of some sort. And there is somewhat of a limit on the amount a landlord can charge in late fees Here's what the New York Attorney General says about late fees.

From http://www.ag.ny.gov/consumer-frauds/FAQs#27

A landlord may impose a late fee on installments of rent from the time they become due. This is true whether the lease is written or oral. Most standard lease agreements contain a provision that states when the rent is due and the fee that will be imposed if the payment is not made on time.

A provision such as this is enforceable provided it is not disproportionate to the amount of harm caused to the landlord by the late receipt of the rent. For example, courts have not allowed a late fee of $50 to be imposed on a late monthly rent of $405, because the late fee was considered disproportionate and characterized as a penalty. The law does not allow a landlord to impose a penalty for late rent. The imposition of a late fee in rental units which are subject to regulation under the various rent control or rent regulation statutes may be subject to specific limitations.

I think the Manager was simply asking for a bribe in exchange for a Letter of Recommendation. She just didn't want to spell it out. In situations like this, if your credit is good you might do better to simply show a new LL a credit report.
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