The perennial noise problem

[HardKnocks]

Wow. What a scenario. But don't worry, I never would have done that. I would never do that to my other neighbors, who are all very quiet.

I tell you, right now I'm so tired I'm practically hallucinating. I have a headache that won't go away. Last night she let me sleep from 1-1:30 and from 3:30 to 4:45. This is the extent of my nightly sleep. How insane is that?

[derrick718]

Let’s change focuses here people for one minute. Did the landlord inform the tenant they have to carpet on their floors before they moved into the apartment? Well in my case I was not informed, in fact I was only informed of the "no pets rule and late fees for rent rules" I know some might say, its in the lease. However who ever take that stuff seriously? 75 percent of those in my building have washing machines and 5 percent have dogs. The bottom line if the landlords cared about the carpet rule they would drill in into new tenants like they do about keeping rent payments on time. I received two letters from the women under me about the carpet Ryder attached to the lease. Now after I moved all my stuff into the apartment, now I have to move it again for carpet? I also spent the majority of my money on new items for the apartment, which is my first after moving from the nest. I spoke to friend of my who deal with housing issues. I was informed that 85 percent of lease Ryder never hold in court. He visited my apartment and informed me that my floors are covered 100 percent with tiles. The previous tenants covered the original hardwood floor. The Ryder does not state "carpet" only "covered". Now what the hell should I do? I don’t want to be an asshole, but her second letter was pushing it with racial words. So I called he landlord and informed him of my findings. He stated, " If your floors are covered then they are covered" so once again now what do I do? Should I have read the lease 100 percent and took it seriously? Yes I should have, however if the landlord would have said” you cant move in until you get carpet” or “ your apartment has to be carpeted “ then It would have been budgeted and installed before I moved into the apartment. Overall the tenants are not to blame 100 percent, they share blame with the landlord.

[mbrenner]

It has never ceased to amaze me that SO MANY OF THESE FANCY, NEW, EXPENSIVE apartments boast of tile or wooden floors. If you live BELOW such an apartment, you are going to HEAR people walking around, moving furniture, etc.,etc. UNLESS there's a ton of insulation. If your apartment doesn't have rugs, then you have to TRY to be quiet and not stomp around - take off shoes, etc. If you're below someone, then you have to hope your neighbors are aware of the sounds they are making and are considerate. My noises referred to above are mechanical (caused by building) and loud TV's. Even with rugs you sometimes hear a heavy foot. But it's not as bad.

[too trusting]

Originally posted by me again:
the problem with ja's 'solution' is that it will probably get too trusting in more trouble than the upstairs neighbor. leaving something like that going all day without you even being there would likely be considered 'harassment', and probably verifiable at that.
consider that when the uptairs neighbor starts getting po'd about it, they'll likely call either the LL or the police, who will probably make a visit to the offending apartment, and since you're not there to turn it off, it WOULD still be offending, even when you weren't there. next step, hearing the noise in the neighbors' apartment, the police come down to your apartment, and get no answer at the door. they get the manager or super, and since there is obviously noise coming from an apartment that is not occupied, manager goes into the unit, fearing 'the worst' (maybe the tenant dropped dead with the radio on, or the pipes in his wall are making really weird sounds), and he finds the cute little set-up you made, which was obviously intended to harass the neighbor upstairs.
you'll have to be a little more creative.

The police won't do anything about noise until after 11 pm. I know this for a fact. The last complex I was living in had a problem in a certain area. They had called the police numerous times and the police said that if they called them anymore they (meaning the people complaining) could be in trouble for harassing the noisy college kids! So between the hours of 8 am - 11 pm approx. you CAN make noise. Now I'm not suggesting playing music at a deafening level (you don't want to ruin your speakers) but loud enough to be annoying to the person above you. In my experience, you make your point. After doing this I didn't have a problem again.

[HardKnocks]

I understand people have to walk. I cringe every time I walk and the floors creak... I feel guilty that the people below me have to deal with it. But at least I have rugs and I remove my shoes as soon as I come home... and I don't put them on until I'm ready to walk out the door. That's just common courtesy.

But I do NOT walk on bare wooden floors wearing shoes, and I do NOT stomp around (with shoes or without), move furniture or vacuum in the middle of the night, before dawn or in the early morning hours. That is the issue here. If you insist on keeping unconventional hours, you simply MUST go OUT OF YOUR WAY to be quiet. Duh.

This woman also used to play the piano in the middle of the night until other tenants called the police and forced her to stop. She is someone who clearly does not care who she disturbs and when. To her midnight is the same as noon, and she'll do what she wants, when she wants. In the meantime, I'm so exhausted I can barely function.

And yes, the lease clearly states that 80% of her floor space must be covered. If you don't like the terms of a legal agreement, then don't sign it. And if you do sign it, don't act all put upon and like it's so unfair and unreasonable when you're told to comply with it.

Personally I don't think any civilized adult should even need to be told that they shouldn't do these things in the middle of the night or early in the morning. But that's just me.

[HardKnocks]

To Derrick718:

You don't have to install wall-to-wall carpeting. You simply have to put down area rugs wherever you walk around... and take your shoes off while indoors. It's especially a problem in the bedroom area, because that's where your noises are most likely to be disturbing to those below you.

If you've never experienced it, the only way I can describe the sound of heels pounding across bare floors is this... it sounds like someone is hammering incessantly on your ceiling. Not at all pleasant. Especially at midnight-7 am.

[HardKnocks]

originally posted by tootrusting:

<<The police won't do anything about noise until after 11 pm. I know this for a fact. The last complex I was living in had a problem in a certain area. They had called the police numerous times and the police said that if they called them anymore they [meaning the people complaining] could be in trouble for harassing the noisy college kids! So between the hours of 8 am - 11 pm approx. you CAN make noise.>>

I remember reading on Tenant Net something about the "noise is OK until 11pm" thing being a popular myth, so I went looking for it:

<<Many tenants think there's a law that allows a neighbor to be noisy up till 10 or 11 at night. There's not. But common sense and practical application of the NYC Noise Code recognizes that a reasonable level of noise is acceptable during daytime hours. On the other hand, a rock band reverberating in your apartment, even at 12 noon, is probably unacceptable and you have a right to complain to the police, to your landlord and to the NYC Department of Environmental Protection.>>

I'm reasonably sure this applies to the middle of the night as well.

[derrick718]

Originally posted by iris:
It has never ceased to amaze me that SO MANY OF THESE FANCY, NEW, EXPENSIVE apartments boast of tile or wooden floors. If you live BELOW such an apartment, you are going to HEAR people walking around, moving furniture, etc.,etc. UNLESS there's a ton of insulation. If your apartment doesn't have rugs, then you have to TRY to be quiet and not stomp around - take off shoes, etc. If you're below someone, then you have to hope your neighbors are aware of the sounds they are making and are considerate. My noises referred to above are mechanical (caused by building) and loud TV's. Even with rugs you sometimes hear a heavy foot. But it's not as bad.

Iris you bring up a good point!!! thats how my landlord sold me into renting this apartment. "oh the floors are nice and wooden or you can pick another with tiles........ but 0nce again no tell you about the carpet issue. many people pick apartments because of the wooden floor, hell check the new york times and thats all you see in the ads. thats why i feel tenants are not to blame 100 percent.

[HardKnocks]

Derrick718:

The tenants ARE to blame, because they are the ones doing things that common sense tells them they shouldn' t do. All adults old enough to have their own apartment know that wearing shoes on bare floors is NOISY. And that making noise in the middle of the night is RUDE. This is simple common sense.

We are all in control of and responsible for our own actions. Blaming the landlord for not specifically "telling" you that you weren't allowed to disturb people is a cop-out. And if you signed a lease that says you have to cover your floors, then don't whine and complain when you're asked to do that. If you're old enough to sign a lease, you're old enough to comply with it. Get some rugs.

Anyone with half a brain knows that uncovered floors coupled with shoes equals LOUD, and that when you are up and around in the middle of the night, you make an extra effort to be quiet. Nobody--including a landlord--should have to babysit adults and force them to behave with common courtesy.

Oh, and by the way, the landlord sent crazy upstairs neighbor a letter, telling her to knock it off. (They sent me a copy.) Didn't stop her from rearranging her living room furniture at midnight last night (my sister was visiting and was stunned at the GALL of this woman), or getting me up at 5 with her high-heeled stomping and dropping things every two seconds. On covered floors, this would be merely an irritant. On bare floors, it's deafening and life-altering.

[custudent]

In your case, bleary, the tenant is probably to blame. Moving furniture doesn't have to be a nightly event. But in many cases, no one is to blame. Apartment living puts strangers in close proximity, and background noise is unavoidable.

My bathroom is adjacent to my neighbor's bedroom and the sound of my shower wakes them up every weekday morning. I leave for work around 4:30 AM, and shower around 3:30 AM. This is an unfortunate, but unavoidable problem. Neither of us wants the landlord to attempt a plumbing overhaul, as this would result in a rent increase.

[HardKnocks]

Yes, I agree that some things are unavoidable. Toilets flushing, creaky floorboards, babies crying... you can't change stuff like that. But you CAN walk quietly and avoid doing noisy things in the middle of the night, you CAN take your shoes off indoors--ESPECIALLY if your floors are bare and ESPECIALLY at 5am, and you CAN hold off vacuuming your bedroom or moving that sofa at least until the sun comes up, for crying out loud.

What are people THINKING???!!!

[HardKnocks]

custudent:

One question, though... to avoid waking your neighbors at 3:30am--which is NOT when most people are up--could you not possibly take your shower right before you go to bed? It most likely wouldn't inconvenience you too much, but being awakened at 3:30am probably inconveniences your neighbors A LOT... especially when they have to get up a few hours later and go to work themselves. Spare a thought for them... if you're the one with the unconventional hours, you should really be the one going out of your way to soften the blow and make it less miserable for your neighbors. A little compromise would be a very nice thing to do, and probably wouldn't put you out too much. Just a thought.

[custudent]

I am not willing to shower at night. Taking a shower is (at any hour) quiet enjoyment of my home.

When you moved to/live in NYC, the city that never sleeps, you accept the risk that your neighbor will work unconventional hours.

I am more than willing to avoid excessive noise in the early AM. the key word is excessive.