sublease->lease = they ask for money

[ameno]

Hello,

I have been a subtenant for almost one year. Never missed a rent payment, never missed a bill payment, never made trouble to anyone.

The sublease expires in two weeks and I wanted to become a tenant but property management company which is a real estate agence at the same time REQUIRED to pay them a broker's fee (1 month rent) to become a tenant!

I said that I would not pay that because they had not done anything for me to help me to find this apartment. I found the apartments without their help and have been living there for 1 year already.

Then they changed their mind and asked to pay 525 dollars for "paper work". What paper work?

I said "no". Then they said to pay 400 dollars for paper work and to pay in cash! Plus month rent plus security deposit...

Please, can anyone tell me what are they doing????
Do they have rights to behaive like this? They just trying to take money from me for letting me to live in the apartment.. Is that legal?

Thanks a lot

<small>[ April 14, 2003, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: ameno ]</small>

[mjr203]

is it rent stabilized? if so, that's illegal "key money"

if it is not rent stabilized, I still think a real estate agent cannot accept "broker" fee. The problem is that if you cause trouble, they may evict or later raise the rent on you.

If it is rent stabilized, you could pay the money and later pursue an overcharge. To your advantage, you are currently in the apartment -- you already have possession.

It is not unheard of for an apartment to have a written broker fee contract but for a place you already live in and have possession to not be dealing direct with mgmt company is strange.

<small>[ April 15, 2003, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: pointerout ]</small>

[ameno]

the original lease (don't forget that I am subleasing) was rent stabilized. After I signed the sublease with property management company, the company has been changed and another company became the property estate management company.

They increased the rent by 7 percent but it's ok. They can do that. But asking for more 400 dollars..!!

My sublease expires in two weeks. And they told me to pay 400 dollars in cash in order for me to stay in apartment and become a tenant.

The way they do that is obviously wrong. At first they asked for broker's fee, then they reduced it to 525, then they reduced it to 400. But told to pay in cash.

I have been told that landlord is not interested in debating over this stuff. Landlords are interested in collecting the money and that's all. Also, i have been adviced to agree to pay and then to file a claim in the housing court.

Is that correct way to do that?

Thanks

<small>[ April 15, 2003, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: ameno ]</small>

[mjr203]

Originally posted by ameno:
the original lease (don't forget that I am subleasing) was rent stabilized. After I signed the sublease with property management company, the company has been changed and another company became the property estate management company.

They increased the rent by 7 percent but it's ok. They can do that. But asking for more 400 dollars..!!

My sublease expires in two weeks. And they told me to pay 400 dollars in cash in order for me to stay in apartment and become a tenant.

The way they do that is obviously wrong. At first they asked for broker's fee, then they reduced it to 525, then they reduced it to 400. But told to pay in cash.

I have been told that landlord is not interested in debating over this stuff. Landlords are interested in collecting the money and that's all. Also, i have been adviced to agree to pay and then to file a claim in the housing court.

Is that correct way to do that?

Thanks

If the apt is rent stabilized and you will be signing a new exclusive lease on the place, then I am surprised that the rent is not increasing 18 or 20% (stabilized vacancy increase). If the apartment is stabilized, then I don't think they can charge a broker fee (would be overcharge) and any application fee should be much less (and like you said if they did a credit check once, why again). If they are asking you to pay in cash you should be immediately suspicious. Don't give $ without them giving you a receipt/proof of payment that you may need later on. I agree with FairSpect. that it is never useful to be confrontational, but asking questions is always a good idea.

good luck

-POINTER

[ameno]

thank you very much for replies.

Couple of more questions, please.

Does anyone know the landlord "Josef & Mary Raichl". They reside in New Jersey. I can not find their phone. Would it be a good idea to talk directly with them and explain the sitiation? I don't think that the landlords like the idea when property management companies collect the money without notification.

Thanks

[Cranky Tenant]

Pointerout and FairSpectator are both mistaken. Licensed Real Estate agents are entitled to collect brokers fees, whether the apartment is rent regulated or not.-- but they're not allowed to charge a broker's fee if they own or manage the building.

If you want the apartment the best thing to do in this kind of situation is pay the fee, get the lease, and file for an overcharge once you become the legal tenant.

<small>[ April 15, 2003, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: Cranky Tenant ]</small>

[ameno]

Cranky Tenant,

Thank you very much. I have thought of the way you just described. One more question please.

I strongly believe that upon signing the lease, they will put some lines there like "I hereby agreed to pay 400 dollars for paper work... bla bla bla" to insure themselves against any law suits. How should I handle that situation?

And what if they do not give me any receipts for those 400 dollars? Should I insist on that?

Thanks

[mjr203]

Originally posted by Cranky Tenant:
Pointerout and FairSpectator are both mistaken. Licensed Real Estate agents are entitled to collect brokers fees, whether the apartment is rent regulated or not.-- but they're not allowed to charge a broker's fee if they own or manage the building.

If you want the apartment the best thing to do in this kind of situation is pay the fee, get the lease, and file for an overcharge once you become the legal tenant.

I may have been unclear, but Cranky's right--- a broker can charge a fee but they must be distinctly separate from the management company/owner of the building.

-POINTER

<small>[ April 15, 2003, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: pointerout ]</small>

[Cranky Tenant]

Once you become the legal tenant, you can file a complaint with DHCR for a specific overcharge - such as "paperwork" or a realtor's fee if they're not legally entitled .

The forms are available at http://www.dhcr.state.ny.us/ora/forms/forms01.htm#ra89

In some cases where the landlord or management company deliberately overcharges you, you may be entitled to treble damages.

If you can get a written receipt that should help, but you should always pay with a check so you have a record of the transaction.

It's also important to realize that Realtors are licensed by New York State who determines the maximum amount of the fee - something like 15% of the yearly rent.. If a "realtor" doesn't have a NYS Real Estate License they're not entitled to a Realtor's fee in New York State regardless of their relationship.

<small>[ April 15, 2003, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: Cranky Tenant ]</small>

[ameno]

Originally posted by Cranky Tenant:
Once you become the legal tenant, you can file a complaint with DHCR for a specific overcharge - such as "paperwork" or a realtor's fee if they're not legally entitled .

what do you mean "legally entitled"? are they legally entitled in my case after I have lived in the apartment for 1 year and want to reapply the lease under my name?

If you can get a written receipt that should help, but you should always pay with a check so you have a record of the transaction.

the specifically required to pay in cash. I think they try to get away from taxes. I think it's not good

It's also important to realize that Realtors are licensed by New York State who determines the maximum amount of the fee - something like 15% of the yearly rent.. If a "realtor" doesn't have a NYS Real Estate License they're not entitled to a Realtor's fee in New York State regardless of their relationship.

they are licensed. But they backed out regarding broker's fee after I told them they were wrong.. then they started to ask for "paper work" fee.. and kept reducing that fee everytime I refused to pay.

<small>[ April 15, 2003, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: ameno ]</small>

[ameno]

I am trying to find a phone number of my landlord but can not. I want to talk to him directly.

Is there a database of landlords somewhere?

I know only the name "Josef & Mary Reichl". They are located in New Jersey. How can I find them?

I do not want to ask property management company otherwise they will understand what I want to do

[Disgruntled Suzie]

What's the name of the Management Company? I hope it is not Alexander Wolf and Company. We also need a list of shady unethical management companies.

[ameno]

"Josef & Mary Reichl" (landlord, New Jersey)

"Jalen Estate Company" (property management company, New York, Brooklyn)