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No Central Heating in the Building

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No Central Heating in the Building

Postby jptiger » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:48 am

I just took over a friend's 1br apartment a couple months ago. I'm going month-to-month because I was planning on moving, but I'm starting to like the place. My landlord has been really nice so far, and the rent is cheap for what I get.

But I'm realizing a problem now. The building appears not to have any central heating. There are no vents in my apartment, aside from the fans above the oven and the shower. The only sources of heat are three space heater things attached to the baseboards in different parts of the apartment.

The outside temp hasn't gotten below 35 yet this year, and it's already sometimes very cold in here without turning on the heaters. But I checked with my friend who lived here before, and she said that turning the heaters on only when she was awake and at home raised her electricity bill by nearly $100.

Not only that, but because they're electric coil heaters, I'm pretty sure they're a fire hazard, and I don't feel comfortable having them on when I'm asleep or away from the place. But that means I wake up freezing and come home to a frozen apartment.

I'm not sure there's much I can do in this situation, but I thought I'd ask for any advice you folks might have. The fact that I'll be paying $100+ for heating per month is more than irritating, but the safety and comfort issues worry me even more. Is there anything I can do here?
Last edited by jptiger on Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby TenantNet » Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:44 am

First, check the lease to see what it says about heat.

Wait, as a month-to-month tenant you have no lease, and no lease protections, meaning with proper notice, the LL can seek to evict you. So right there you're up a creek. Have you checked to see if the unit should be rent regulated?

It depends on the size of your unit, but my guess is $100 extra is a low-ball estimate.

One source of information is at http://pulp.tc/

As to the law, the LL must provide central heat. The Housing Maintenance Code § 27-2028:

“Except as otherwise provided in this article, every multiple dwelling and every tenant-occupied one or two-family dwelling shall be provided with heat from a central heating system constructed in accordance with the provisions of the building code and the regulations of the department. A system of gas or electric heating provided for each dwelling unit may, if approved by the department, be utilized in lieu of a central heating system if:

(1) the system is lawfully in use on July fourteenth, nineteen hundred sixty-seven; or
(2) the system is approved by the appropriate city agencies having jurisdiction and is installed in a structure or building erected, converted, substantially rehabilitated, or completely vacated, after July fourteenth, nineteen hundred sixty-seven.”

That means in most cases central heat is the rule.

Was the conversion to space heaters done recently? Ask other tenants. See if they have space heaters or if it's just you. The LL would have had to file for a permit with Dept. of Buildings, so you can see if the permit is valid, or if he lied on the permit. Also see if the building has apparatus for central heat. Are there old radiators anywhere? What a about a boiler in the basement, or place where a boiler would have been, or might the building have been heated by Con Ed Steam? And how is the water heated?

There's a lot you can do, but without a lease you have a problem.
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Postby queensborough » Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:32 am

This could also be an illegal apartment. (Maybe that's why the rent is cheap). How many apartments are in the building and how are they being heated?

I'm going to say that these heaters are not a legal source of heat, since you can't heat the apartment when you are not there. Your apartment is supposed to have heat between October 1st and May 31st whether you're home or not, and I doubt that space heaters are an acceptable or legal source of heat for an apartment, it sounds like a fire hazard.

You may be careful about how you use them, but if other tenants are using them, you can't know if they are using the same precautions as you are.

While many of us use an electric heater occasionally during the winter months to supplement our heat, the electric heater is not our main source of heat.

Just my opinion, but this just doesn't sound very safe. If you have an opportunity to move then you should run as fast as you can to a safer place.

FROM THE NYC FIRE DEPARTMENT WEBSITE:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/safet ... ting.shtml
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Postby jptiger » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:49 am

It may be even worse than not having a lease. I have signed a month-to-month lease. I was also asked to sign a rider saying, among several other things, that the tenant will pay for the heat and hot water. When I called and asked, they just said the heat and hot water ran on the electricity of the place, and therefore would just show up on my electric bill. I realize now that signing that was dumb, but since my electric bill at the time was pretty low, (plus having spent the last two years in places without real winters) I hadn't really thought about just how the mechanics of that would work. I'm asking to see a copy of my lease and of that rider so I can get the exact wording, and I'm going to ask a couple of my neighbors what they do about it.

I would rather not leave the apartment as it's a 1br, very close to the 116th st stop on the 4/5/6 for just under $1100. But since it is month to month, all I need to move out is three weeks notice. Working as an independent contractor means establishing annual income is a real problem for me to move, but I expect it'll be an equal problem for my current LL to find a tenant who wants to move into what's basically an unheated unit in the middle of winter.

One last question... if the building really is unheated, how would they keep the pipes from freezing? That clearly wasn't a problem last year, or my friend would have told me about it.
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Postby jptiger » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:58 am

Reading more carefully now:
A system of gas or electric heating provided for each dwelling unit may, if approved by the department, be utilized in lieu of a central heating system if:

(1) the system is lawfully in use on July fourteenth, nineteen hundred sixty-seven; or
(2) the system is approved by the appropriate city agencies having jurisdiction and is installed in a structure or building erected, converted, substantially rehabilitated, or completely vacated, after July fourteenth, nineteen hundred sixty-seven.”

That means in most cases central heat is the rule.

Was the conversion to space heaters done recently? Ask other tenants. See if they have space heaters or if it's just you. The LL would have had to file for a permit with Dept. of Buildings, so you can see if the permit is valid, or if he lied on the permit.


How do I find out about the permit? Just ask the landlord, or can I find out from the city somehow? Oh and my apartment has its own water heater (which is pretty sweet when it comes to showers, etc).
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Postby TenantNet » Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:01 pm

There is no such thing as a month-to-month lease. If you're a month-to-month tenant, then you don't have a written lease. (I said in another post that it's a monthly "lease"). It's an agreement that turns over monthly and self-renews until either party gives notice. It's often an informal extension of an expired lease. But it's not a lease in a conventional sense.

You do not need to give move-out notice. The LL does, but in Manhattan the tenant does not despite what they are telling you. See the forum reference section.

So I don't know what you signed, but how come you don't have a copy?

Any permits would be listed with Dept. of Buildings. Some you can access of the DOB website BIS.
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Postby queensborough » Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:55 pm

Go here to get the information from the DOB:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/html/bis/bis.shtml

Just fill in the information on the right side of the screen, and your building should come up.
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Postby 10ants » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:19 am

Before you go crazy or freeze: It is possible that the building has permanent electric baseboard heaters that are (as far as I know) legal. They were popular in cheap construction 20-30 years ago, and are pretty safe, though they do tend to drive up the electric costs.

I'd ask the landlord or the prior tenant to explain how the heat works before I spent a lot of time on the DOB website.
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Postby jptiger » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:30 pm

10ants wrote:Before you go crazy or freeze: It is possible that the building has permanent electric baseboard heaters that are (as far as I know) legal. They were popular in cheap construction 20-30 years ago, and are pretty safe, though they do tend to drive up the electric costs.

I'd ask the landlord or the prior tenant to explain how the heat works before I spent a lot of time on the DOB website.


That sounds exactly like what I have. And I guess I do have a monthly lease that self renews rather than a month-to-month lease. Sorry, I didn't realize there was a distinction...

Thanks for the help, guys. I'm still a little concerned about these permanent baseboard heaters being a fire hazard, but unless the permit is illegal, it sounds like I'm stuck with them. I'll just see what I can do by shrink-wrapping windows, getting good curtains and a couple rugs. Hopefully that'll cut down the electric bill come January and February.
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Postby TenantNet » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:04 pm

First, please do not put personally identifiable information on the forum. I deleted the DOB info because it had your address.

Second, that appears to be a dismissal of a violation. That does not make it legal. Chances are the DOB inspector was either lazy or bribed. Both happen quite frequently and NYC agencies are often worse than landlords. The DOB often doesn't enforce the Housing Maintenance Code. You might need HPD inspectors for that.

Do you have baseboards or space heaters? Their existence does not necessarily make them legal.

Finally, I think you're confused. Whatever you signed, it's not a month-to-month "lease." And I called it a monthly renewal "lease" only as a way to describe the arrangement. A real lease will state the period in which it's effective, the parties, the rent and other terms. I don't know anyone that has a lease for one month. You should get a copy of what it was that you signed.
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Postby jptiger » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:12 pm

Eep. Sorry about that. And the heaters are baseboard heaters (I thought that was a kind of space heater).

The lease I signed had all of those things specified, and either said, literally "month-to-month" beginning Oct 15th 2010 or something very similar. I've requested a copy to be sent back to me so I can get the actual wording but I have no idea how long that will take.
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