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Can a roommate claim you have a "rent a room" situ

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Can a roommate claim you have a "rent a room" situ

Postby CityWifi » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:20 am

My roommate/landlady says we have a "rent a room" situation, not a roommate arrangement. She uses this to bully me and have her way, constantly making me feel like an intruder in my own home. She also yells at me, and I mean yells, a lot. When she is not yelling, she is whining, haranguing, insulting and bullying.

She set this up without the knowledge or permission of the landlord. And when I had to call the police to come to the apartment (when she wielded a knife), they police said she could not do what she is doing. They said it was illegal. I thought I'd double check with you all.

In short, she is leasing a room of her apartment, with kitchen and bathroom privileges. (She constantly complains when I am in the kitchen, and refuses to let me keep my toiletries in the bathroom, if you can believe it. I never even had a mailbox key until I'd been there 2.5 years. She is excessively rude and hostile.)

The room is furnished, and I have use of her kitchen utensils. She supplied linens but I use my own, not hers.

Is she allowed to do this? Would a court recognize that we have anything more than a roommate situation?

By the way, I am taking steps to move out as soon as possible.

Thanks.

CitizenK
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Postby TenantNet » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:37 am

Based on what you've said it sounds like a licensee (roommate) situation, which on its face is legal in NY. Tenants are allowed to have (at least one) roommate. Situations differ. It doesn't matter what she calls it; she's the primary tenant presumably on a lease from the landlord and you "license" space from her. You have certain rights, although not as much as a regular tenant.

Perhaps the police were referring to some other aspect of the arrangement.

If it's as bad as you describe, why stay there?
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Postby CityWifi » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:47 am

Well, you can see from my post that I am taking steps to move immediately.

And of course, I know people are allowed to have roommates. That is a no-brainer.

But my question is, can she claim any other arrangement than a licensee/roommate arrangement? Does the law recognize any other arrangement? I suspect not, but am not an expert, which is why I posted here.

And no, the police were not referring to some other aspect of the arrangement. She said I was not a roommate, but that it was a "rent a room" situation (she always states it in those exact terms). To this, they responded that it is not legal to do that.
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Postby TenantNet » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:15 am

She can say what she wants, and you can say what you want, but based on your description, my view is that it's a roommate AKA licensee situation.

It is not a boarding house type situation where a landlord or net lessee rents a number of rooms. In some areas a "boarding house" requires a special license.

You don't say why you ask, but it doesn't change either party's rights or responsibilities.

If I remember the Queens Borough President's office had an initiative to deal with illegal apartments. Whether this qualifies or not, perhaps they should look into it?
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Postby CityWifi » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:22 am

Thanks, I will call them.
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Postby ronin » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:17 am

Tenant is absolutely correct here. I think that the terminology is confusing the police. But it could just be that they are from the burbs and don't have a clue about roommate laws.

Rent a room makes it sound like a rooming house situation. People who rent multiple rooms in a private house to different people under different terms qualify for that- even if they use the word "roommates". It also implies some real transience. If you have been there 2.5 years with just her then you are definitely roommates.

Your roommate sounds particularly nasty with regard to shared space. Which adds to the "rent a room" feel.
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Postby CityWifi » Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:25 am

Thanks, Ronin. Yes, she is particularly nasty. I call her a Human Paraquat (hit tip to The Big Lebowski).

I really don't think the police are confused. She made it clear to them that we are not roommates, but that this is a "rent-a-room" arrangement. This is the language she consistently uses. She even pulled out our signed agreement and paperwork to show them (why, I have no idea), and they were very clear to her and me that they interpreted what she was doing as a rooming house, and that it was not allowed.

I must say, I am grateful to have had a (relatively) safe place to sleep for three years. But her abuse has been so burdensome and painful, keeping me hiding in my room so often to avoid her, that I look forward to blossoming in a new space, and doing some healing as well. Because I suffer from severe PTSD, I often shut down and literally can't function when someone has been yelling at me. It is more horrible than you can imagine (but thankfully I'm making progress in dealing with it).

God may have been using this situation to teach me how to stand up for myself, something I have not always done in the past. I surely will not let a situation like this get out of hand again, and won't wait for months or years before really speaking up and/or putting the situation right.

By the way, when she is home, I now no longer leave my room without my iPhone set on record and resting in my shirt pocket. She does not know this, and if she ever causes me real grief, starts an argument, or tries to deny anything she said, she is in for a big surprise. I hate to take this approach, but she has made it necessary. She will never know I have done this unless or until it is absolutely necessary.

I will also make a point to record future conversations with prospective landlords, agents, and roommates. Sounds a bit paranoid and even creepy, but it is one's right to do this, and it can be very helpful to avoid bad situations. If anything, it's also a good exercise in monitoring one's own language, tone, and commitments made, so later you can go back to someone and say, "Listen, I know I told you X, but I've rethought it and believe I should have said Y instead."
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Postby ronin » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:32 pm

The iPhone record can't hurt.

btw- Police are not lawyers. What they know of the law is a tiny tiny tiny fraction of what the law is. If you go to the law library you will see reams of books and legal encyclopedias and statutes. The part the police know is generally the penal law and traffic violations. These are the slimmest, puniest volumes of all law books. For the most part they can tell you a little about the Penal Law and local Administrative Code violations. But half the time they can't even get that right. So don't count on cops for legal advice, check with a lawyer or look it up yourself. They don't even know their own Police Procedure Manual!
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When is a written roommate agreement not enforceable?

Postby CityWifi » Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:06 pm

Is a written, signed agreement by both roommates always enforceable?

(I have a bit more information now, and ask for clarification on this point. At the request of TenantNet, I am including it in this thread.)

My roommate and I both signed a document that states:

This is a "rent a room" situation, not a "share and [sic] apartment" situation. Do you understand the situation.


I now have a copy of the document.

I really have a roommate/licensee arrangement, and that the arrangement stated above is pretty much bogus and/or unenforceable. (She is not licensed to have a boarding house.)

So my question is, does the fact that we both signed this agreement 3 years ago mean anything? Can she use it to enforce the "rent-a-room" arrangement, or would a housing judge likely ignore that part of the agreement as unenforceable or legally irrelevant, and declare that we are in fact roommates?

[BACKGROUND: I am trying to firmly establish our roommate arrangement, because I just found out that this is a RR apartment (I am triple-checking that), and will, if I can, use that fact to receive any overpayment of rent by me, if I can also establish that she has charged me more than 1/2 the rent stated on the lease.]

Thanks,

CW
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Postby ronin » Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:46 am

You both could agree that you are martians.

It doesn't mean a court is going to rule that you are because you agreed to it.
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Postby CityWifi » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:06 pm

Ronin, your reply is not helpful.

Does the fact that I signed this agreement mean that I have waived rights as a roommate, or is such an agreement likely to be disregarded by a housing court if I press the issue over possible over-charging of rent?

CW
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Postby ronin » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:36 pm

Ok then. Suit yourself. You're a martian!

Don't take my word for it. Do an experiment. Go find someone to agree in writing that you both are martians and see if the court goes for it. Actually, with the low intellectual standards of the lower courts these days, and a few of the higher ones (e.g. Dimlit), maybe they would make such a silly finding.

But you can always rely on the following phrase to get you through:
MARS... NEEDS... WOMEN....

(I know, I know Tenant. I'm leaving the thread now...)
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Postby TenantNet » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:47 pm

Clapton is God. Google it, especially if you're under 45.
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