withheld security deposit

[jgperras]

Looking for some advice/help from the experts among you.

The management company (one woman) is trying to withhold my sec. dep. because after vacating our apartment, we took a few days past the lease expiration to turn in the keys and get the last of our stuff out. However, the person who took the apt. following us, a friend of mine, had given us permission to take the extra 5 days as she wasn't moving in for several weeks. I conveyed this to the management co. who said "okay" in a displeased tone. No mention of withholding the deposit. I turned in the keys on the date promised, and have been trying to get in touch with mgmt to get back the deposit. Finally chased her down after 2 1/2 weeks to hear that she doesn't want to give it back because of the late return of keys. She's upset also because my friend, without me knowing, tried to get the rent prorated because of the week she didn't have keys.

All that said - will I have a good case in court? There's nothing in the lease or in the NYS Atty. Gen. Tenant's Rights Guide that says the deposit can/will be kept due to late return of keys. Any thoughts on this? Pls. help.

Cheers,
Justin

[jgperras]

One quick follow-up -- management made no mention in our brief conversation yesterday about the condition of the apartment or anything that would be legitimate legal grounds for withholding.

However, because all discussion has been verbal, I'm primarily concerned that it's a he said/she said issue and wondering how the court will treat that.

The second issue is, of course, whether the court has a track record of siding with management or tenants on these kinds of issues, and if there would be any need for signed affidavits from my friend, myself, et al. regarding our conversations.

[mjr203]

you'd probably just go to small claims for this.

not housing court.

you don't have possession any more so housing court is not the venue.

-pointer

ps LLs are mad shady about security deposits -- treat it like its their own $. Take em to small claims. And talk to your friend too -- that's messed up.

[jgperras]

Thanks P...

do you (or anyone else out there) think, though, that my case is good on this? If it's a he said/she said deal, any clue as to how the court (small claims or otherwise) tend to rule?

[mjr203]

Originally posted by Justin:
Thanks P...

do you (or anyone else out there) think, though, that my case is good on this? If it's a he said/she said deal, any clue as to how the court (small claims or otherwise) tend to rule?

my experience with retrieving my security deposit was that the small claims court leans to the tenant rather than the LL... they are not the DHCR. I think you have a good case. You should have returned the keys and if the next tenant was already secured there is absolutely no reason for them to keep your security. I think the fact that they are trying to keep your whole deposit right now (it seems) will not play well with the admin/judge.

As in any court situation, preparation is key. Read up on some security deposit statutes, gather all documentation you have of the apartments' condition (I know they didn't say anything about this which is to your advantage). Before filing the small claims action you should probably demand "IN WRITING" (can't stress that enuf) your deposit back.

good luck

-POINTER

[jgperras]

Thanks, good to know. There's a lot more to it than what I put above. Namely, that the landlords live in England and we have an excellent relationship and I'm not sure that they know how negligent this woman has been. She basically fell asleep at the wheel, didn't show the apartment over the course of the month between us giving notice and moving out, and in a scramble to cover her ass, rented it out for less than the LLs might have gotten had it been shown competitively...just to keep it from being vacant for a full month. I could probably resort to threats to go to the LLs directly and for her to lose the contract, but I don't want to necessarily do that if I can negotiate with her first. I'm sure her negligence (not capital N Negligence) isn't really germane to the case, but it might be a nice trump card to pull if things get more bitter than they already are.

Thanks again...

[mjr203]

This lady is hassling you for your own money and that is not right. Whatever you need to do to get your money back and don't get stressed, you should probably do.

good luck.

-POINTER

[mjr203]

in any case if your deposit is say:

$1500 and you were in the apt for 3 more days, that's 3/30 = 1/10 * $1500 = $150 prorated, NOT, $1500 so if the LL/managing agent says she is keeping all that money she is dead wrong.

<small>[ April 22, 2003, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: pointerout ]</small>

[jgperras]

Thanks for both responses.

I happen to believe you're both right. I've got an email to my friend to find out whether the rent was actually prorated or not. I do believe, too, that how this is handled in or out of court will hinge on that issue.

And because the LL is claiming to want to keep the full amount, $2100, for what was only a 4-day overlap (digression: my lease allows for a 5-day grace period on late rent w/o a penalty...I'd love to apply that here, if it isn't too much of a logical reach). So yes, 4/30 of $2100 is $280.

Maybe I can offer to pay that in $28 installments over the next 10 months...

[queenswoman]

Another alternative besides taking the ll/management company to small claims court is to contact the Attorney General of the State of New York. They will send a form for you to fill out and then they contact the ll to settle the security deposit dispute. Their number is 212-416-8000.

Also the more evidence you have that you left the apt in good condition the easier it will be to win as a lot of ll's are in the habit of greatly exaggerating that the tenant left the apt in bad condition and/or the cost of fixing damages in the apt. If you have photos of the apartment the day you moved out (with that current day's newspaper in the background) so much the better

[mjr203]

saying they will keep $2100 for 4 days of overrun which you are saying is questionable given their laxity in rerenting and the "friend of mine" who took over the apartment.

I'm sorry but that is straight up theft and they don't know or don't care about the law concerning security deposits.

Go after them.

[jgperras]

Thanks to everyone for the advice. It's been very helpful in clearing my head and getting my thoughts straight.

Here's the latest: talked to the friend and have found a whole new motivation. Turns out that the friend is no longer renting the apartment because the management woman (we'll call her K for future reference) messed around so much. The friend, H, sent a $6000 check to hold the apt but they went back and forth on the lease terms. K actually sent an email (which I'm receiving a copy of) telling H not to talk to me anymore about the apt.

So the new motivation isn't anger, frustration or simply 4 days of lost monies. Turns out that because H backed out, K needs to recoup money lost and because she already has ours, wants to keep it. Even though as far as I can tell, she's got no claim to it (or at least more than $333 of it).

So my fear now is that she's gonna trump something up about damage to the apt or something similar to justify under the law, keeping the deposit. It's possible my stress is getting the best of me, but given what you've all read thus far, does it seem that farfetched?

Queenswoman's idea is a good one, re: photos. Unfortunately we don't have any that would reasonably work...they're pretty general, w/o close-up detail, and aren't dated. So fingers crossed that she doesn't get that vengeful.

Again, thanks everyone. I eagerly await any new ideas/thoughts/advice.