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Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

NYC Rent Regulation: Rent Control/Rent Stabilized, DHCR Practice/Procedures

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Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby hsinorc » Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:09 am

I am a rent-stabilized 1-BR on a 2-year renewal in a Manhattan pre-war walkup; most of the other units in the building are fair market leases.

New owners are proposing to re-wire the building: back side this summer, front side next summer. I have lived here 30 years. They want to re-wire my unit, meaning moving all my 30 years worth of stuff (bookshelves, furniture, more bookshelves, every wall is occupied) into the middle of the floors, break open the walls, etc.

They say they are doing this for safety purposes, though I have not had any electrical problems in my apartment, or in the building that I know of, in all this time. Of course, they will file for an MCI increase, and that is a separate issue. [They have already converted the oil burner to gas, and I have contested their MCI increase, and will post a separate topic for that.]

In this case, I am more concerned with what they are proposing to do to my apartment. This is going to be a MAJOR job, akin to moving. My possessions cannot just be 'moved' into the middle of the floor: bookshelves and entertainment units will have to be emptied before they can be moved. It will be like packing up for moving.

And, I must still live here, I do not have an alternate place to stay during the 2-3 weeks that they propose for completing this work. It's one thing to do this kind of renovation on a vacant apartment, but in a fully occupied unit, it will be a disaster zone.

My Question: Am I required to submit to this, or can I lawfully refuse to allow it?

Thank-you.

h.
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby TenantNet » Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:40 pm

This is a classic MCI. One thing that strikes me is that the job could be "piecemeal" meaning done in stages, not all at once. DHCR does not like piecemeal MCI jobs. http://goo.gl/siHPt6 and http://goo.gl/4nH31Y. So it might be in your interest if the LL does this over an extended period.

I don't know if what you describe is that, but it could be. You don't explain what frontside and backside mean.

As for the rewiring itself, well they can do that. You say you don't have any issues with your current situation, but you don't delve into particulars. How many Amps serve your apartment? Is that sufficient for your TV, computer and AC all at once? You said you have lived there for 30 years. Were there any electrical upgrades in the last 30 years? That could impact MCI eligibility.

I think your issue is really the need to move your stuff. Yes, it's a major hassle, but you can also stage any movements depending on where they will be working, and you can demand they tell you in advance what areas and what walls will be affected.

I had this done to me, so I fully understand the hassle.

I experienced two days of work. Chances are their plans may be for 2-3 weeks for all apartments. You need to find out how many days it will impact YOUR apartment. It does not take that long to rewire one unit.

Also, make sure they commit in writing to restore any walls or ceilings they dig into. They must re-plaster and re-paint to the same condition it was in before. Make sure you document everything. Take many photos.

You can negotiate how it all happens, but understand that a refusal might get you brought into housing court.
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby hsinorc » Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:53 pm

Thank-you for your reply. I apologize: by front-side and back-side I meant the street-facing "A" apartments, frontside, and the rear, courtyard facing "B" apartments, rearside. They want to re-wire the "B" apartments this summer, and the "A" apartments next summer.

As for amps and watts, I don't know. It's 120 Volts, but that's as much as I can say. But I run two flat panel TVs, two Time Warner Cable boxes, a desktop computer and two laptops, and the AC (13,000 BTU) all at once, and don't break a circuit. There have not been any electrical upgrades in the last 30 years, and to be honest, I do not dispute that the re-wiring will be a) more safe, and b) provide more juice. You are right when you pinpoint my issue: the hassle of moving my stuff.

I had the owner and the electrician in here the other day, and I tried to do exactly what you suggest: pin him down to a schedule. But, the electrician said it would be a 2-3 week process, and I asked him to do the living room first (and I would camp out in the bedroom), and then do the bedroom (and I would camp out in the living room), and he said it's not like that, it's all at once.

He did say they would also be plastering and painting afterwards.

And also this: these owners have made it perfectly clear that they would prefer if I were not living here. I am the only RS tenant in the building, every other unit is fair market. They have asked what it would take to get me to move, etc., and my answer was that I would not insult them with a figure, because it would be more than they would ever consider paying, b/c I am far from the RS threshold limit ($2,700/mo), and even then, there is no way I will be making $200,000 per year (if I were making that, I'd move). So, I can live here under RS for quite a long while as a RS tenant.

But, because of this, I worry that during this work, some 'calamity' will occur, that will render the premises 'uninhabitable,' and they will try to wrest control of the unit that way. I do have a RS 2-year lease, but we know that possession is 9/10ths, etc. And, therefore, I have insisted that I must remain here while the work is being done.

I will take your advice and try to negotiate a schedule; I don't want to go to housing court over something that will probably benefit me in the long run, as long as they don't do anything unscrupulous.

Thanks, again, I appreciate your advice.

h.
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby TenantNet » Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:17 pm

OK so front and back could make it piecemeal. Whatever he does, if you oppose it whenever he finishes it, make that argument.

FYI, volts is not power per se. You need to look at how many amps or watts are being supplied. If you have 13K BTU, you should be all right. Do some research at DOB and see the last time they did any electrical work. Even so, they can still do it anyway.

As for the 2-3 wk process, well it's your call, not his. You need to offer a reasonable schedule, but not all at once. He has to give somewhat.

Get it in writing from the LL (not the contractor) about the restoration. You have to be strong in your resolve.

As for their desire to have you out, well ignore that. You are right to insist you stay in place.

BTW, find out (DOB) if they are doing this to the rest of the building. Any upgrade must be building-wide to be eligible for a MCI. Doesn't make sense to do an MCI for only one unit. I suspect something else is going on. Look closely at the DOB filings. You said you looked at the PW1 so you are familiar with that. Also check line No. 26 to see if they admitted to units being occupied and rent regulated. If not, you can make a huge fuss.
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby hsinorc » Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:11 pm

Thank-you for your reply. I did some DOB research, and found 3 electrical inspections in the past two years, one for wiring for the boiler conversion (my other topic), and the other 3 were for 3 separate apartments in the building. In each case the Work Category was for REHABILITATION, the Work To Be Done was 6-GENERAL WIRING, and in each case the WORK DESCRIPTION was:

PANELS
A. 1 Phase Up to 20-1 or 10-2 Pole Brkrs 1

In two of those cases, the Field Disposition was: C-INSPECTION PASSED. In the 3rd case, it was K-OK TO CANCEL.

I don't know whether that constitutes re-wiring of the type that they are proposing now, but when I met with the owner last week, he did say that they have already re-wired three of the units in the building, and I presume these are what he was referring to. They did this work in the past year, as these units became vacant and they were doing renovations prior to re-renting.

These are all on the BIS Inactive page for the building; there are no Active Applications found for this address. I am guessing they are in the process of filing ED16A applications for this upcoming work? However, they did this electrical work on these apartments last year, they say they will re-wire the front apartments this summer, and the rear apartments next summer, and that is going to give me a 'piecemeal' argument when they apply for an MCI Increase for the re-wiring. (They may even exceed the 2-year 'statute of limitations.')

The reason they are applying for MCI for only one unit is because I am the only Rent Stabilized tenant in the building. All the other units have been de-regulated over the years, due to vacancy increases and preferrential rents, etc. They are getting fair market rents from all the other tenants, and so they are hitting only me for MCI Increases. They started with the oil-to-gas conversion (my other topic), and now are onto re-wiring, etc.

Thank-you for pointing out Line 26 of the PW1: The one I have is from the file that ORA sent me in the oil-to-gas conversion case, and there are checks in the "NO" boxes for OCCUPIED, and "NO" for Rent Control or Rent Stabilization, with neither of the qualifying boxes below that checked (re: notification fo DHCR). These should have been marked YES. However, on the MCI Increase Application itself, the form does list 1 Regulated apartment (that would be mine). Plus, I did not catch Line 26 when I made my original opposition, so according to the PAR 'rules,' I will not be permitted to raise 'new' facts or present 'new' evidence in my Petition for Administrative Review, only to seek review of the points I had previously raised as to fact and law.

I will follow your advice and negotiate for a fixed schedule, and I will seek assurances from the LL re: finishing the work properly, plastering and painting, etc.

Thank-you for your assistance with this, it's been most helpful.

h.
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby TenantNet » Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:34 pm

Seems they did electrical rewiring in other units. Again, that can make it piecemeal if he files for a MCI, the longer ago it was, the better. The entire building also has to be done as one job, not as separate jobs spread over time.

And yes, the LL must file with DHCR within 2 years of completing the work.

The reason they are applying for MCI for only one unit is because I am the only Rent Stabilized tenant in the building.


Still they must do the entire building. Any increase would only apply to you, but MCI's are by definition building-wide.

Thank-you for pointing out Line 26 of the PW1: The one I have is from the file that ORA sent me in the oil-to-gas conversion case, and there are checks in the "NO" boxes for OCCUPIED, and "NO" for Rent Control or Rent Stabilization, with neither of the qualifying boxes below that checked (re: notification fo DHCR). These should have been marked YES.


This is a big issue these days and several news articles looked at this. If you make a fuss DOB should deny the permit and that can cost him some time. However think it through as how it impacts what you want to do. After all he can just re-file.

I will not be permitted to raise 'new' facts or present 'new' evidence in my Petition for Administrative Review, only to seek review of the points I had previously raised as to fact and law.


I don't think it would stop a MCI, but it might have an impact with DOB.
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby 10ants » Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:28 pm

Sounds like they are upgrading to 12 gauge wire from 14 gauge, and possibly adding more circuits.
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby hsinorc » Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:32 pm

Thank-you, I will ask for a written description of what work they plan.
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby hsinorc » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:07 pm

The owner came by again yesterday with a different electrician (when they made the appointment, the managing agent said they were taking bids on the rewiring job). They reiterated that it would be a 2-3 week process. When I asked what work was being done, the electrician said it was changing the circuit breaker panel, and re-wiring all the outlets, including going through all the baseboards, and the ceilings, etc.

Several questions:

1. They need DOB permits to do this work, right? But no permits have been applied for, according to the NYC BIS (Building Information System) webpage. Do I have the right to request written notification of the name of the electrician, and a copy of the DOB permit? If the electrician is not at the proper level of experience (do you know whether this kind of job requires a master electrician, or can a journeyman do it?), or if they do not provide a DOB work permit, may I lawfully refuse to allow the work to be done?

2. I will be living here while all this is going on: they have to move all my furniture and rip through the walls and ceilings to do this rewiring. Of course they must turn off the power while they are working, but will the old breakers and outlets still be in service until all the new wiring is in place, so that I can still have power when they finish work each day, or will I be roughing it entirely during the whole time?

Thanks for your replies.

h.
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby Sky » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:25 pm

A few observations:

-After they pull the permit, you will be able to view it online at DOB's website. The permit is issued to a specific licensed company.

-Despite a licensed firm having pulled a permit for the DOB approved job the legality of the following depends on the integrity of all persons involved: a.) the nature of the electrical work that's performed, b.) the manner in which it's performed, c.) the qualifications of the people that are actually doing the installation, and d.) work outside the scope of the permit.

-This project will more than likely kick up a lot of dust:

-I would expect a TPP (Tenant Protection Plan, aka TSP 'Tenant Safety Plan') to be filed with the DOB outlining the steps and procedures in place to minimise impact on the tenants: how/where tenants will reside during renovations, what measures will be used to ensure tenant safety, how noise and dust will be managed, material handling and storage, contaminants (lead contaminated dust and debris?), etc. You can inquire about this.

-Separate from the DOB electrical permit is an EPA license for RRP (Renovation, Repair, and Painting). Most likely there's lead based paint based on the age of the building. You are advised to review the EPA laws, requirements, and licensing for doing work that will disturb more than a certain square footage of paint, plaster, wall, etc. and protocols for safely containing and handling the dust and potentially toxic materials. In addition to DOB requirements, this job may very well also require the contractor be EPA RRP certified. If this is a concern, you can send a letter to the owner asking him if the contractor is certified by the EPA. https://www.epa.gov/lead/renovation-rep ... ng-program
There's additional benefits to having EPA certified guys work in your building/apt.: many contractors (especially the clueless chumps without licenses, or the clueless chumps licensed contractors hire to do their dirty work who) don't have experience in setting up a worksite safely and properly containing dust ... they contaminate residents' property and make the entire environment a nuisance and unsafe. EPA training introduces them to safe material handling and storage procedures, alternate tools, better techniques, ways to do things to minimise dust creation, ways to capture dust, correct cleanup, testing to make sure private and public spaces are not contaminated with lead dust after cleanup, etc. I've personally witnessed contractors, both licensed and unlicensed, greatly improve their work habits after taking the EPA course.

-Additional lead concerns: are there children living in or visiting your apt.? Children in the building?

-As the work may entail cutting grooves into the walls, demolishing baseboards, cutting holes in walls and ceilings, and due to the age of the building (pre 1970s) ...the condition of what's underneath the paint is a mystery which could present additional challenges and increase the scope of work being performed (not everything goes as planned).
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby hsinorc » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:50 pm

-This project will more than likely kick up a lot of dust:

-I would expect a TPP (Tenant Protection Plan, aka TSP 'Tenant Safety Plan') to be filed with the DOB outlining the steps and procedures in place to minimise impact on the tenants: how/where tenants will reside during renovations, what measures will be used to ensure tenant safety, how noise and dust will be managed, material handling and storage, contaminants (lead contaminated dust and debris?), etc. You can inquire about this.


Yes, it will definitely kick up 100-year old dust behind the baseboards, and I am the only tenant who will be living here during the work: I will be staying here while this is going on. I am a rent stabilized tenant; the other two apartments will be vacant while this is happening (those two fair market rentals will be between rentals).

I do not expect any kind of TPP to be filed; this owner is a new owner, and seems unfamiliar with rent-stabilization. Due to the amount of furniture and personal belongings in this apartment after 30 years of living here, it's been years since it's been painted. Just too much trouble to move everything in order to get to the walls. But in order to do this re-wiring, they tell me they have to move all my furniture, bookshelves, piano, etc., to the middle of the floor to gain access to the baseboards and walls.

Okay. But when I suggested that, after kicking up all this dust, when the electrical work and plastering are done, that they paint the apartment, the owner, seemingly unfamiliar with Rent Stabilization, suggested to me that "You may want to do that yourself." Of course, I will negotiate the painting with the managing agent (which does know about rent stabilization), but I do not expect this owner to know anything about a TPP.

Moreover, will I be in any danger by staying here during this work?

Lastly, do you think this is a 2-3 week job, as they have suggested to me? Others have suggested that it is a 2-3 day job.

Thank you for your reply.

h.
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby TenantNet » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:07 pm

I believe a TPP is required, not optional. I would check with DOB on that. If they do not have permits (and they are not posted), you can refuse entrance into your apartment. They will be mad, but hold your ground. The TPP is required by DOB for all units, not by the rent stab laws.

As for real physical dust, you can insist they set up plastic barriers between the area they are working in and the rest of the apartment. They should run floor to ceiling, and be taped off. You should also get a written plan from the owner for restoration (plaster, paint and new baseboards) IMMEDIATELY after the electrical work is done. It will likely be done by a different company. For painting, that's required by HPD at least once every three years, or sooner if needed. This has nothing to do with rent stab. Get it in writing.

When my LL did some rewiring, I refused the LL access until he gave me a written statement on restoration. Again, they will be mad, but you have to hold your ground. Their option is to take you to court, but in the long run, it's easier for them to comply if they are rational.

As for moving items, well up to a point that's your obligation. You don't have to move the entire room all at once. Move one side, then later the other side depending on their work flow. Make sure they put plastic over all your items. There are times the workmen - the person heading up the team - can be reasoned with easier than the LL.

As for time, in my apartment (not all wires were replaced), the rewiring and plaster/paint took 3 days. I think 2-3 weeks is unrealistic, but can't say for certain not knowing the unit.
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby hsinorc » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:13 pm

Addendum:

I sent a pic of my sub-panel to my out-of-state cousin, who guessed that this is a 1970's sub-panel. I have attached pics below. There are 5 breakers at 20 amps apiece, and the kitchen breaker at 15 amps. Also, all the outlets are grounded, 3-prong outlets. He said that this should be up to code, but he's not sure about NYC code. However, he said that absent renovations being done in my unit, there should be no need to replace this sub-panel, or the outlets.

Is this true? Does this give me a basis for resisting this major renovation of my apartment? The owner says that that they will also be rewiring two other units at this time, but those two units will be vacant, so they will renovate, rewire, paint, etc., and then re-rent those two. But in my case, I'm rent-stabilized, my unit will not be vacant, of course.

Does it look to you like this sub-panel and these outlets are up to current code, and if so, is that a reasonable basis for me to resist this work being done?

h.

sub-panel.jpg

sub-panel sticker.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby 10ants » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:36 pm

Current code requires AFCIs in bedrooms as well as GFCIs in kitchens and bathrooms.

Also, most new apartments would have more circuits, and would probably have more total power. This setup would have issues with 2 ACs and various electronic gadgets.
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby hsinorc » Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:38 pm

Thank-you for your reply.

I guess the next question is: What time frame does the code provide for all buildings to be in compliance?

The owner informed me that they are re-wiring one half of the building this summer, and the other half next summer, so there cannot be any immediate hurry under the law. But they want to do my apartment this summer.

I asked that they do mine next summer, to give me time to get my ducks in order, donate books and move furniture out, to make the process less onerous, to make the walls and baseboards more accessible. The owner does not seem willing to wait. It may be that I cannot force him to wait, but if there is any legal basis, I would explore it.

Thank-you.

h.
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