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Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

NYC Rent Regulation: Rent Control/Rent Stabilized, DHCR Practice/Procedures

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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby Sky » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:46 pm

Prior to the aforementioned renovations described in my previous post, my building underwent an electric upgrade. It didn't include rewiring the entire apartment, but rather installing new feeders and a little work on individual wiring circuits. I remained in occupancy as did all the other tenants; it wasn't even proposed that we relocate. Since that time I've seen several apartment rewiring jobs in my building with tenants remaining in occupancy, and on occasions I've had electric work performed related to upgrading wiring in individual rooms all done with me occupying the apt.

The job can be done with you remaining in residence. The LL is entitled to make whatever demands he wants, but in my opinion (I'm not an attorney) it's unsupported by legal precedent in NYC. There's no legal requirement (to the best of my knowledge) for the electric work to proceed; it's a voluntary action on the part of the LL.

It seems to me that the ball is in your court. if you want the upgrade, then accommodate the LL and in accordance to terms that you find agreeable. If the LL won't comply with your terms, then you can refuse the work. If you don't want the upgrade you don't have to meet the LL half way, you can simply refuse the work and refuse to grant access.

If the LL is an argumentative or litigious type and will not take 'no' for an answer, then you can tell him that according to the law there's no legal requirement for the upgrade. Until such a time as he can produce a court decision ordering the electrical renovation in addition to a court decision specifically ordering the work to be performed in your vacated apartment, you will consider the issue closed and will no longer entertain any communication on the topic. Then get on with your life. : )
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby TenantNet » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:04 pm

Tenant can impose some terms, like refusing to move out. Other terms the tenant might not be able to make demands. If you refuse access, then LL can start a holdover in court. So be careful what you demand. But on moving out, do not give in on that. Even some attorneys will agree to that with some sort of temporary relocation agreement. But in this case, do not do it.

I remember seeing somewhere that electrical upgrades without feeders can not be considered for MCI's. In my apt, they did feeders, and added new lines (separate circuits) in the kitchen for appliances and for AC in the bedroom. But the bulk of the wiring was not replaced. We beat them on the MCI, but not for that reason.
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby Sky » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:16 pm

TenantNet wrote:Tenant can impose some terms, like refusing to move out. Other terms the tenant might not be able to make demands. If you refuse access, then LL can start a holdover in court. So be careful what you demand.


Assuming that the electrical renovation work is not legally required, then the tenant can decline an access request to undertake the renovation ... in such a scenario why would the tenant be obligated to: a.) grant access for renovation work which he has refused, b.) grant access for work not characterized as a repair (it's a renovation), and/or c.) grant access for work which is not characterized as an emergency repair?
A tenant might be obligated to grant access for an inspection related to the electrical system if the request is reasonable.

On what basis would denying access in the above scenarios be considered a reasonable violation of a tenant's access obligations?
Last edited by Sky on Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby TenantNet » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:21 pm

Not sure if that's correct. An owner can upgrade building systems even if not required by DOB. And tenants must give access.

But if they do it, then it has to comply with code.
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby Sky » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:28 pm

TenantNet wrote:Not sure if that's correct. An owner can upgrade building systems even if not required by DOB. And tenants must give access.

But if they do it, then it has to comply with code.


The OP recently wrote:
"1) they have NOT installed new feeders (risers) from the basement, but are just re-wiring individual apartments with new fuse boxes, wiring, and outlets; they have done at least half the units in this 10-unit building, but last month vacated, repainted, and re-leased two units without re-wiring (so I'm wondering why the hurry with my occupied apartment(?)"

Based on the above, what's the legal basis for a 'mandatory' electrical renovation to an individual apartment when it's not a building wide improvement? What's the tenant's right to refuse renovations such as this (regardless of the relocation issue)?
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby TenantNet » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:33 pm

We don't know what the existing feeders are, their size and current capacity. We don't know what was done in years past. There's a lot we don't know.

Keep in mind the requirements for a MCI are one thing. The DOB code is something else entirely. The requirement to upgrade can be triggered by some things, but generally a LL can keep existing capacity as long as it's the bare minimum and not dangerous.

Up until a few years ago, I had only 15 W for my entire apartment in one circuit, with old-style fuses (actually fusestat). That meant to run my low-capacity air conditioner, I had to unplug or not run almost everything else. As I know how power systems work, I didn't have many blown fuses, but a normal person might.

But even with all that, there was no requirement for the LL to upgrade. He chose to do it so he could apply for a MCI.

But once he chose to do that, then tenants must give access. Now, I was able to demand various other repairs before giving access ... as my delay was a problem for his contractors. But I knew that eventually I had to give access.

It's probably in most people's leases, but if you want the actual cite, I believe it's in the Rent Stab Code. 2524.3(e).

(e) The tenant has unreasonably refused the owner access to the housing accommodation for the purpose of making necessary repairs or improvements required by law or authorized by the DHCR, or for the purpose of inspection or showing the housing accommodation to a prospective purchaser, mortgagee or prospective mortgagee, or other person having a legitimate interest therein; provided, however, that in the latter event such refusal shall not be a ground for removal or eviction unless the tenant shall have been given at least five days' notice of the inspection or showing, to be arranged at the mutual convenience of the tenant and owner so as to enable the tenant to be present at the inspection or showing, and that such inspection or showing of the housing accommodation is not contrary to the provisions of the tenant's lease or rental agreement.
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby hsinorc » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:16 pm

"We don't know what the existing feeders are, their size and current capacity. We don't know what was done in years past. There's a lot we don't know."

On p.1 of this thread, I posted pics of the circuit breaker (from mid to late 70s): There are 5 breakers at 20 amps apiece, and the kitchen breaker at 15 amps. Also, all the outlets are grounded, 3-prong outlets.
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Re: Re-Wiring Occupied Apartment?

Postby TenantNet » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:29 pm

If that's the case, I would say 5 X 20A breakers are probably sufficient for most 1-2 bedroom units. But we still don't know the capacity of existing feeders.

Even if the breakers are in good shape, they probably exceeded their useful life for DHCR-MCI purposes.

But getting caught up in what's required and what's not can make you crazy. Even if it's the LL's choice, DHCR and probably most courts will see that as something that triggers the tenants-must-give-access rule.

Here though, it's not so much about access, but about any requirement to vacate, and to that, the LL would be very hard-pressed to make their case.
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