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Lied into signing a vacancy lease

NYC Rent Regulation: Rent Control/Rent Stabilized, DHCR Practice/Procedures

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Lied into signing a vacancy lease

Postby JoeHayes » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:33 pm

My mother and I was told for me to obtain successions rights that I would have to be added to the lease, ended up signing a vacancy lease its been over a 6 months land lord refuses to give us a hard copy of the lease. The landlord filed the with DHCR the correct legal rent but what we are being billed for does not reflect that. I never asked or wanted to put on the lease what would be my option of fighting this? What be my process about correcting this?
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Re: Lied into signing a vacancy lease

Postby TenantNet » Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:14 pm

Not sure what exactly happened in your case, but it doesn't sound right. First, read the fact sheet at http://www.nyshcr.org/rent/factsheets/orafac30.pdf

Note the fact sheet states, "The first family member to establish succession rights on or after June 20, 1997 is not required to pay the owner a vacancy increase. "

So you probably have cause to file a complaint with DHCR over the LL's refusal to give you a lease. And you probably have cause for an overcharge complaint.

I would back this up with getting some legal advice from a good tenant attorney. You can show to him/her all the details of your case. You don't need a lawyer to file with DHCR, but an attorney can sort out the mess and give you a legal assessment.

From now until the end of time, keep originals and copies of all documents you send or receive, including envelopes with postmarks.
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Re: Lied into signing a vacancy lease

Postby JoeHayes » Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:34 pm

My mother has a rent stabilized apartment, she was hospitalized and didn't have the key to the security door. My mother contacted the building management and was told that her and I would have to come into the management office to sign papers so I have succession rights to obtain the key to the security door. My mother was told that to obtain the key and succession rights that I would be have to added to the lease. They had my mother sign a form stating that she wanted me adding to the lease. I asked the rep. if this was going to change my mother lease in any way she said no, I asked the rep, if this was going to change my mother Scire and what she is paying a month the rep said no. Its been over six months and we never received a copy of the lease. My mother was never made aware on what she was signing or never received a signed a copy of the lease.
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Re: Lied into signing a vacancy lease

Postby TenantNet » Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:42 pm

Understand this - landlords usually don't tell you the truth (look at Trump). I don't know what you mean by the "security door," but tenants usually get keys to the building and to their apartments, and that usually allows for others living in the unit. You haven't said, but I assume you're living there and have for sufficient time in order to qualify for succession rights.

It might impact SCRIE depending on the application she made to the NYC Dept. of Aging. Your income must be included. The LL would have no knowledge of the SCRIE application specifics.

So consider my advice I made at top.
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Re: Lied into signing a vacancy lease

Postby Cranky Tenant » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:54 am

My understanding is, if you've been living with your mother for two years, or one year if she's disabled, then you already have succession rights. You can notify the landlord in advance, but succession doesn't actually take place until after the primary leaves the apartment. At that point the lease renewal would be offered in the successor's name. It's not succession if you're both still living in the apartment.

SCRIE, I believe, is based on a household income of less than $50,000. If your combined incomes exceed that amount, or your rent is less than 1/3 of your combined income, then your mother would become ineligible.

http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/finance/down ... ochure.pdf
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Re: Lied into signing a vacancy lease

Postby TenantNet » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:04 am

Cranky, a few things.

The person seeking succession must be over 62 or disabled, not the person who will be succeeded.

One doesn't "have" succession rights. The LL must agree, or DHCR or the courts must make a determination.

There is a process where tenants can send a notice to the owner establishing in advance who may have succession rights. This is outlined in the fact sheet (see link above). Because of the potential complexity of all this, we advise tenants to consult with experienced tenant attorneys as far in advance as possible. It can get very tricky if the LL is litigious and can toss money at landlord lawyers. They know how tenants sometimes try to get around things, like moving out but keeping up the illusion they still live there. This is common when prime tenants move to Florida but want to keep the apartment in their name.
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Re: Lied into signing a vacancy lease

Postby 10ants » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:50 pm

Succession only applies if you have been living there for 2 years with your mother.

To do that, she would have had to add you as a roommate, which would have been allowed with no extra charge -- since you didn't have the key, it doesn't sound like you were living there already.

Instead, she added you to the lease, which the LL did not have to approve.
Since (presumably) you had not been living there 2 years, and weren't on the lease already, this counts as a vacancy lease. On the plus side, you won't have to worry about proving succession, as you are already on the lease. On the minus side, it will probably affect her SCRIE.
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Re: Lied into signing a vacancy lease

Postby TenantNet » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:04 pm

A son/daughter living with a parent is not a roommate (or "occupant" as used in the actual law, RPL 235-f) and does not need to be added to anything.

The 2 year requirement (1 year if those seeking succession rights are seniors or disabled) is there so some long-absent relative can't move back in a few weeks prior to the TOL leaving or dying and taking advantage of succession rights inappropriately.

DHCR has the form/process (discussed above) that IMHO essentially allows a tenant to establish their residency long before the TOR leaves. This is optional but can preclude unnecessary litigation.

Actual roommates only need to be reported to a landlord if the tenant is asked, and then, only the name of the person is required to be divulged, no other information, including the nature of the relationship.

Having a key is not an indicator of any status (ability to enter the premises of course, but not proof that one is living in the unit).

10ants - you're getting ahead of yourself as the poster has not clarified a number of things. And any impact on SCRIE will only occur if the income of the household is changed, not those living in the unit.
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Re: Lied into signing a vacancy lease

Postby Cranky Tenant » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:46 pm

TenantNet wrote:Cranky, a few things.

The person seeking succession must be over 62 or disabled, not the person who will be succeeded.



DHCR Fact Sheet #30 doesn't indicate any age restriction for succession (I don't believe I indicated there was) but we can still presume the person seeking succession would have to be old enough to enter into a lease.

TenantNet wrote: One doesn't "have" succession rights. The LL must agree, or DHCR or the courts must make a determination.


Perhaps I should've said "eligible for succession" Either way, I agree it's either by agreement between concerned parties, or by the Courts or DHCR. It's a right for those who meet a certain standard - not something the landlord can charge a fee for.

Since the OP is family there's no reason for a vacancy lease if they continue to live together in the same apartment. Either the LL/Management company doesn't know what they're doing, or they're hoping to get a rent increase while still receiving the SCRIE subsidy. The OP should avoid taking any sort of advice from a landlord who clearly is working in his own interests.
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Re: Lied into signing a vacancy lease

Postby TenantNet » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:07 pm

See Fact Sheet, second paragraph. I was responding to your post, so the context is that the one-year requirement can kick-in only if the person seeking succession is 62+ years or disabled.

Many (as you did) incorrectly assume that the person who is leaving (usually a parent) must be 62+ years, but it's the person who wants to succeed.
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Re: Lied into signing a vacancy lease

Postby Cranky Tenant » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:40 pm

TenantNet wrote:See Fact Sheet, second paragraph. I was responding to your post, so the context is that the one-year requirement can kick-in only if the person seeking succession is 62+ years or disabled.

Many (as you did) incorrectly assume that the person who is leaving (usually a parent) must be 62+ years, but it's the person who wants to succeed.



Thanks for clarifying Tenant.net
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Re: Lied into signing a vacancy lease

Postby JoeHayes » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:19 pm

I guess the real question Im trying to ask is
I don't know to do

My Mother and I were misled or lied into adding me to a new lease instead of getting a Key to the downstairs security door

My mother and I have been living in the apartment for over 37 years
Her lease renew was up August 8 2016
the vacancy lease was signed April 2016
the overcharge complaint was made May 2016
Basically the landlord committed fraud
I fell stupid for trusting them

We did an rent over charge complaint
DHCR reply back to us with the landlord response
Basically the landlord is saying Me and My Mother new what we were signing
To this day we never received a hard copy of the lease

My mother is 62 and not good health and we cant afford the new rent.

This all started because the landlord knowingly violated property law
(RPL 235-f) then lied to us about the process of obtain a key
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Re: Lied into signing a vacancy lease

Postby TenantNet » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:01 am

So it seems that you've been in occupancy all along (10ants tends to jump to conclusions). That means you have the right to succeed in the lease when you wish to do so. You are not a roommate or occupant. And you should be added to the lease without it being a vacancy lease.

According to the Fact Sheet, DHCR's policy is that you are not required to pay a vacancy increase (see above).

Of course DHCR has a habit of ignoring its own policies. You have options.

1. Get the LL to voluntarily rescind the vacancy lease, refund any overcharges and re-register the unit as a simple renewal instead of a vacancy. This is perhaps the easiest to do, maybe. But you have to convince the LL you're on to his game, ready and willing to fight it.

2. File a lease AND overcharge complaint with DHCR (filing an overcharge complaint should do both, but you need to make it VERY clear.)

3. File a case in NYS Supreme Court (County court).

I would get advice from a tenant attorney. You can do any of the above on your own, but it helps to have legal advice along the way.

You didn't tell us above that you had filed an overcharge complaint. If you get advice from an attorney, don't casually omit important information like that. And of course, it could change everything we said above.

Tell DHCR that the landlord is asking DHCR to violate the Rent Stab Code and law which tenants can not waive any rights they have. See Drucker v Mauro:
https://goo.gl/VpfqGp

The prohibition against avoiding, by agreement, protection afforded by the rent stabilization scheme could not be stated more plainly. Rent Stabilization Code (9 NYCRR) § 2520.13 provides: "An agreement by the tenant to waive the benefit of any provision of the [Rent Stabilization Law] or this Code is void." Here, the tenants waived the protection afforded by the lawful stabilized rent established for their apartment and their right to timely renewal of their lease, a sufficient basis for voiding the agreement.


Include a copy of that case in any response to DHCR.
Also see Riverside v. Monroe:
https://goo.gl/61AB0j
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Re: Lied into signing a vacancy lease

Postby JoeHayes » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:22 pm

I want to say thank you

I was able to find a tenant/ housing lawyer at Queens legal services and a neighborhood organization is helping us. I going to take the information you gave me and refer it to the people who are helping us. I know the fight is not over yet, but Thank You all So much!!
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Re: Lied into signing a vacancy lease

Postby JoeHayes » Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:29 pm

Here's an update
Last week we received a copy of the LL response to the DHCR rent overcharge complaint
The landlord response say That
1. My Mother and myself new we signing a vacancy lease with a letter that my mother wrote requesting a key for me to the front security door.
2. My mother requested me to be added to the lease that qualified LL to the vacancy increase
3. My is under SCRIE if my mother has not reported my income and has not reported new roommates and is subleasing the apartment.

The person that is helping with the paperwork wrote a response to the landlord reply
He's stated that I have lived in the apparent for more than 2 years

My mother and my father was on the lease but past away and my mother had him taking off
I was next person to have succession rights and filed papers the landlord was mailed and the DHCR succession papers by certified mail.

He included the my death certificate

I have proof that I was living there all my life bank statement s and Americorp award letter even selective service card

Next week I'm going to have a lawyer to look at it.
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