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Owner Wants Me Off the Lease

NYC Rent Regulation: Rent Control/Rent Stabilized, DHCR Practice/Procedures

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Owner Wants Me Off the Lease

Postby AstroBabe » Wed May 24, 2017 12:09 am

My mom has been a rent stabilized tenant in her apartment for over 30 years and I have lived with her. My name was on the last renewal lease next to my mom's. This year, however, the owner sent my mom back her lease and said she has to fill it out again, because my name should not be on it.

Is he trying to remove me so that I may not have succession rights or proof that I live there?
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Re: Owner Wants Me Off the Lease

Postby TenantNet » Wed May 24, 2017 4:15 am

My first reaction was that this is a succession issue. But if you are legitimately on the lease, then succession would be moot as you already are a RS tenant.

You say your name has been on the lease. For how long? For how many renewals leases has your name appeared?

How did your name get on the lease in the first place? Was it when your mother first moved in 30 years ago, or somewhere along the line?

What were the circumstances that got your name on the lease, i.e., how did it happen? Did the LL object at that time?

Is this a regular RS unit with a private owner, or a more recent tax-subsidized building, or some special flavor of rent stab tenancy?

Please fill this in with more detail.
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Re: Owner Wants Me Off the Lease

Postby AstroBabe » Wed May 24, 2017 8:21 am

I was put on about 20 years ago when I reached adulthood. My mom wanted me on there, because her landlord gave her trouble years before when my grandmother passed away (she didn't want me to have the same issues ever).

We sign 2 year leases. I think I was not allowed onto the lease about six years ago and we didn't make an issue of it and just signed my mom's name. 4 years ago, I signed the lease next to my mom and the landlord did not object. This year, he mailed it back to us with a THICK pile of paperwork. The note said, "Only the lease holder can sign the lease. ALL documents must be returned to office.

We are not going to sign the whole pile of docs about who lives there and preferential rent riders, etc (because she receives SCRIE and that is NOT a preferential rent!). Also, our living situation has not changed in 30 years and we never had to fill out a fistfull of paperwork before this.

We just intend to sign and return the lease only.

This is a "normal" RS apartment.
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Re: Owner Wants Me Off the Lease

Postby TenantNet » Wed May 24, 2017 11:01 am

You see, this is a bit strange as children (even adult children) are not normally put on a lease without some sort of succession situation. Not illegal, but not normal. In fact the LL might have been able to claim at the time that it was a new vacancy lease (allowing a vacancy increase), and not a renewal lease. Too late for that to happen.

In general (in non-family situations), adding tenants to a lease can create a vacancy lease, but removing tenants from a lease does not. For family situations, a spouse has a right to be added no matter what. And children can claim succession if they meet other qualifications.

From your explanation, it appears to me that you are a bonafide RS tenant with all the rights and responsibilities. When your parent dies or leaves, you should be able maintain your tenancy without having to make a succession claim.

Perhaps the LL knows this and that is why they are trying to intimidate you to get off the lease. Do not let that happen.

Over the years, has you name appeared on the top left of the RTP-8 form where is says "Tenant's name(s) and address" or do you just sign at the bottom? That could be an issue if the LL wants to litigate this.

Another benefit is that if your mother succeeded your grandmother, you would be a second successor and might not have all the rights of a first successor. See https://goo.gl/DoMpsn. Not having to deal with succession means you don't have the exposure of this wrinkle.

What is in the thick pile of documents? There's a good chance many of those items can be disregarded. LL's have a habit of giving illegal or unenforceable paperwork at tenants. With my LL, I sign and return the lease and only the lease (and return by certified mail after making many copies). I do not return all the other documents. Perhaps we have the same LL.

As for 4 years ago, if your name was on the lease, the thing you should have done was a) return the lease to the LL unsigned asking the LL to send a proper renewal lease form, or b) file a lease complaint with DHCR. But that 4 years ago.

If this were me, I would send the unsigned lease back to the LL (without all the other crap), telling him in a cover letter a) you know I am a tenant on the lease, b) please correct and return a proper lease offer, and c) - and this is very important - that you intend on renewing the lease and will do so when a proper renewal offer is made.

Your intent is important. Now if the LL doubles down and refuses, that's OK as his failure to make a proper offer freezes any rent increase until he does so. My LL hasn't given me a lease in about 4 years, and my rent has been frozen. This is true no matter what the RGB does.

If you have concerns about this, you might consider getting a legal opinion from a tenant attorney who knows RS law (not some ambulance chaser on the corner).

As for SCRIE, understand that can create hiccups with DOF. They have a form fow when LL's refuse to give leases. See https://goo.gl/3Rb8bR
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Re: Owner Wants Me Off the Lease

Postby AstroBabe » Fri May 26, 2017 9:49 am

Thank you. Maybe we do have the same landlord, lol. Unfortunately, we ended up sending the lease out without my name on it. I didn't want my mom to feel like she's in limbo. I feel a little bad, because I just read this today. I pray I won't ever need to fight for succession rights, but if I need to, I will go through with the fight.

All my identification from the government goes to my home, my employment information and I file my taxes using my home address. I feel I would have a good case. That's funny, I never knew my name had to appear at the TOP of the form. It never has, in all the years I was on the lease! Really appreciate what you have taught me, thank you!

I did photocopy the sticky note he attached to the lease, saying I could not be on it. Oh! And one of the forms wanted her to sign, saying she was receiving a preferential rent because she was getting SCRIE. We did NOT sign or return anything but the lease!
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Re: Owner Wants Me Off the Lease

Postby TenantNet » Fri May 26, 2017 11:20 am

Why ask our advice if you're going to ignore it?

In the end though - you didn't tell us this at the outset - that your name is really not on the lease, at the top. Just signing at the bottom does not, in our view, make you a party to the lease, i.e., a tenant. But get another opinion on that.

OK, now I would first get legal advice from a tenant attorney on your next step. (a real tenant attorney)

You could file a lease complaint with DHCR that the LL refused to put your name on the lease and that you are a tenant on the unit, that you did that only - as you say - so your mother would not feel insecure. But the case for that is weaker with the new information you just revealed.

DHCR is often anti-tenant, so that option at times gives me pause. Another option might be to file a case in NYS Supreme Court, but that can get complicated. That's why you should speak to a tenant attorney first.

Filing with DHCR is free if you do it. A lawyer will cost you money.

Succession and Preferential Rent are different things. Did he attach a Pref Rent rider to the original lease? I doubt it if you've been there 30 years. This sounds like a total scam. DO NOT sign anything regarding preferential rent.

As for SCRIE, you deal with the Dept. of Finance, not the LL.

After you get a legal opinion on your tenancy rights, then start thinking about succession. Yes, it's a bit morbid, but planning early will pay off. Get all your ducks in order for any succession claim you may eventually assert. Even if it's many years down the line that your mother moves out or dies, start the process now. Pay attention to the fact that you might be considered a second successor and the limitations that might create.
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Re: Owner Wants Me Off the Lease

Postby AstroBabe » Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:59 pm

So now the LL contacted me to say that he would not renew the lease still because we didn't return a bunch of papers he sent with it! We keep signing leases and he keeps refusing it for some reason or other. I wouldn't care but my mom gets SCRIE and they don't want to give her the abatement for SCRIE without a copy of a lease. When she first got SCIRE the LL kept asking for the rent increases, ignoring SCRIE.
I guess he's getting what he wants by not giving us a lease.
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Re: Owner Wants Me Off the Lease

Postby TenantNet » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:52 pm

As we discussed above, it appears you really are not on the lease, and that you should start looking at succession issues. You should get a tenant attorney for that. You don't know when you will need that, so it's better to be prepared.

As for all the other paperwork, what I would do is refuse to return all the paperwork and call his bluff. The rent can't go up without a renewal lease, and as RS tenant, your mother really isn't about to be evicted over that. I'm dealing with a similar situation and just let it go on until the LL blinks. Haven't had a lease in about 3 years now. If you want you can always file a lease complaint with DHCR, but that's optional.

As for SCRIE, there is a SCRIE form for when the LL refuses to renew the lease. See the link above. Is the Department of Finance refusing SCRIE on renewals without a lease? They are not supposed to do that. I would contaqct the SCRIE Ombusdperson and make a stink about that.
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Re: Owner Wants Me Off the Lease

Postby AstroBabe » Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:46 pm

Yes, it does say we can submit something else, but only one time. I guess they might eventually require a lease, but then we can look into that Ombusdperson.

So much valuable info at this website. Thank you!!
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