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Renewal Lease: 2 copies Lease/Rider Only one copy DHCR Rider

NYC Rent Regulation: Rent Control/Rent Stabilized, DHCR Practice/Procedures

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Renewal Lease: 2 copies Lease/Rider Only one copy DHCR Rider

Postby eliuri » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:26 am

Hi:

I have several questions about our RS Apt. But the most immediate one is that I received two copies in my packet of both the Renewal Lease and of the Peferential Rent Rider for the Renewal Lease. BUT only one copy of the DHCR Rider --That 11 paged one. Revised March 2016 with "State of New York Division of Housing and Community Renewal Office of Rent Administration" at the top of Page 1)

Was I supposed to receive two copies of that DHCR Rider as well? Management of this apartment complex is hard to reach.

There are two signatories to our lease..

I fret because the whole package is dated August 25, as per the cover letter from Management. Although it was actually postmarked Sept.13. So the 60 day deadline (going by date on the cover letter for the packet) is very soon approaching. I'm trying to be extra cautious here..So would like all my renewal material to be in and in proper order by the next week or so..

A few other more complex questions bout the rent history to follow....But first would like to resolve issue about not having a duplicate copy of that DHCR Rider to sign along with the rest of the material

Thank you kindly
eliuri
 
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Re: Renewal Lease: 2 copies Lease/Rider Only one copy DHCR R

Postby TenantNet » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:09 am

LLs are required to send tenants the DHCR informational rider for all vacancy and renewal leases. I've never heard anyone ask about getting two copies of the rider, but I've not seen any law or regulation that requires two copies of the rider be sent to tenants. Why would you need that? It would be a waste of paper in our opinion.

You can always find a PDF of the rider at http://www.nyshcr.org/forms/rent/ralr1.pdf

You say there are two signatories, but there is only one tenancy and one lease. The second copy of the lease is not for the second person. Both of you should sign both lease copies, and return both to the LL (after making copies, very important, and return by certified mail RRR). The LL then has 30 days to execute the lease by signing them and returning one copy to both of you.

Remember the three steps: LL offers, tenant accepts, and LL executes. If the LL plays games and refuses to execute, well that's a separate discussion, but don't get too worried about that either.

The new DHCR riders have a place for tenants to sign and return to the LL. That's just to acknowledge receipt (giving cover to the LLs) and there is no law or regulation that requires you to do that. I would ignore that.

Tenants are supposed to accept lease renewal offers within 60 days (read the back of form RTP-8 for details). In my experience, in practice, this is not a hard deadline and you won't be evicted if you miss it. However, I would still do everything you can to meet the deadline absent some emergency.
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Re: Renewal Lease: 2 copies Lease/Rider Only one copy DHCR R

Postby eliuri » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:06 am

Thank you kindly for your quick response.

"Both of you should sign both lease copies, and return both to the LL (after making copies, very important, and return by certified mail RRR). The LL then has 30 days to execute the lease by signing them and returning one copy to both of you."



The manager's office is not far away. Might it be better to simply go over there and submit the entire packet. Hopefully, they might review it to make sure all is in order. Or is it advisable to mail it all in so as to get it done via certified mail RRR, as you suggest above?
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Re: Renewal Lease: 2 copies Lease/Rider Only one copy DHCR R

Postby TenantNet » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:29 am

What else is in the "packet?" In general we advise tenant to not sign anything except the renewal lease. That's one piece of paper (must be official DHCR form RTP-8) with your and your roommate's signature and room for the LL's signature. There should be two copies and you sign both. You return both to the LL (but you keep copies) where the LL has to execute the leases within 30 days and return one copy of the executed lease to you.

Many LLs include all sorts of nonsense in their packet. Most (if not everything except the lease) of that can be discarded. I would keep/copy/scan the other pages just in case you need them, but I would not return or sign any of them. LL's will often say you must sign other things, but that's not true. They often withhold the lease if you don't sign. OK, then that means your rent doesn't go up, so it's not entirely a bad thing ... and you are still a protected RS tenant. Document everything that is written, or said, or done.

I've been through this sort of thing several times. Haven't had a new lease in several years. Because of this the rent hasn't gone up at all. It's the LL's choice. So do what you have to do, but nothing more.

You send cert RRR for proof of mailing and proof of receipt, not for convenience. And before you mail, make copies of everything. And get a receipt from the USPS and make copies of that as well.
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Re: Renewal Lease: 2 copies Lease/Rider Only one copy DHCR R

Postby eliuri » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:51 pm

Thank you:

My main question now is about bringing the packet in-in person- instead of mailing it . It is a huge management outfit, and I can see them simply not sending the "Reply Requested". Might it be more secure to deliver it in person?

Other things in the packet--other than that renewal lease and preferential rent lease rider- -include:

-Statement that we do not need window guards.
-That we have no sprinkler (Sprinkler Disclosure) and
- Request for our Taxpayer Identification Numbers/Social Security Numbers.
-Also:Lead paint prevention if child under 6.

And then:
- that long 11 page DHCR Form.

They also ask us to submit the extra money for the security deposit- based on rent increase calculated upon the "Preferential Rent"

I'm eligible for SCRIE. But the current lease is a de-stabilized one, so I never even bothered with the SCRIE application.The renewal lease puts the unit back on rent stabilization. This is another issue I was going to ask about on a different thread...

Thanks again
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Re: Renewal Lease: 2 copies Lease/Rider Only one copy DHCR R

Postby TenantNet » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:35 pm

Seriously, it would be foolish to go there in person instead of mailing it certified. They don't send the RRR; the post office does that. You should also track the certified on the USPS website and take screengrabs of the delivery status when it's delivered.

NEVER EVER give the LL your Social Security number. Doesn't matter what they say or threaten you with. DO NOT give it to them.

Some pref rent riders want your signature; others don't. I wouldn't sign that, but it depends on the language. Even if it's to acknowledge receipt of the rider, nothing says you have to do that, and it could be used against you in the future.

The rider has a page for tenants to acknowledge receipt. I would not sign and return that.

The other items should not require your response. Remember, sign ONLY those items you absolutely must sign. Nothing else.

Is the extra security deposit requested calculated on the RGB increase applied to the legal rent or the preferential rent?

What do you mean the new lease is a "destabilized one?" At the top of this thread you said you were RS (and it's posted on the RS Forum). Are you RS or not?

You say the "current lease" is destabilized. Is that the lease that is soon expiring, or is it the new lease they are now offering? Is the new lease an official renewal form on DHCR form RTP-8? What form was the old lease on? Have previous leases also been "destabilized?"

And was the destabilized lease rent increase based on the RGB percentages? Or was there an overcharge?

Don't start new threads; this is all the same issue.

As for SCRIE, I've had to deal with the same issue I think you are raising. In that regard, what you want is the LL to execute and return the lease renewal in order to satisfy the people running the SCRIE program. So don't make too much of a fuss now (except still sent Cert RRR, always).

Once you get that and get on SCRIE, you can then make a fuss about the bad lease from before, any overcharges or implications.
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Re: Renewal Lease: 2 copies Lease/Rider Only one copy DHCR R

Postby eliuri » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:05 pm

Ok..so the Return Receipt Request is something the USPS does?...So its more straightforward.

The current lease, the one about to expire, shows nothing about it being RS. The renewal lease being offered seems an RS lease (RTP-8). Rent history from DHRC shows: Previous tenant was RS. Legal rent was then doubled during the month it was vacant prior to our original signing.. Bringing it just a few dollars above the magic number of $2700. So the history shows: PE (permanently exempt) High Rent Vacancy

Rent history further shows it was later put back on RS. Only a few months ago. And lease renewal does in fact indicate a RS unit. DHCR conjectures either J-51 (dating back years and ongoing..) or Altman (or both) as possible explanations for reversion to RS. From what I know about bldg and apt. both would apply.

SCRIE only freezes legal rent, not preferential, so it wouldn't affect us very much at this point in time...
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Re: Renewal Lease: 2 copies Lease/Rider Only one copy DHCR R

Postby TenantNet » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:11 pm

On the bottom of the renewal lease, lower left should be in tiny letters RTP-8. Is should look like this: http://www.nyshcr.org/Forms/Rent/rtp8.pdf

Chances are the rent increase was illegal, but whether you can do anything about it depends on how long ago it was. There's a 4-year SOL.

What was the lease situation when you moved in? Even if it goes above the $2,700 trigger, it's not deregulated until you move out. And remember, the rent history only shows what the LL reports to DHCR, which is often just false.

Right now I would do what you can to get the executed lease, i.e., don't make any fusses at this point. You will want that executed lease to get SCRIE. Later you might be able to do something.
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Re: Renewal Lease: 2 copies Lease/Rider Only one copy DHCR R

Postby eliuri » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:27 pm

"Right now I would do what you can to get the executed lease, i.e., don't make any fusses at this point. You will want that executed lease to get SCRIE. Later you might be able to do something."


Exactly why I'm for signing everything being asked for. And making sure all the paperwork is in order.

As for SSN's they already have those anyhow from when we applied ..I'm assuming that's to check if there's high income grounds to destabilize. Not even close here..

According to rent history it went over the 2700 during that month of vacancy, less than two years ago, but not during tenancy of prior tenant..All the drastic changes--from a low rent apt. to high rent vacancy---took place during that month of vacancy interval. The Legal Rent goes a few dollars over 2700 upon our first lease. So it's within a 2 year period. My hesitancy with fussing over anything now is that the "preferential rent discount" is for term of lease only. Up to LL discretion if any renewal lease grants that. We're being offered that now in the renewal lease-which is an RTP-8
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Re: Renewal Lease: 2 copies Lease/Rider Only one copy DHCR R

Postby TenantNet » Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:02 pm

Exactly why I'm for signing everything being asked for. And making sure all the paperwork is in order.


That doesn't mean you should be reckless about it. Seriously, I meant don't make complaints yet. I didn't mean give them information to which they are not entitled.

Pref Rents do not exist for unregulated units.

You say "We're being offered that now in the renewal lease..." Do you mean the Pref. Rent was not part of your initial lease? If not, they can't add it in now. Sounds like you're reading too much into all this.
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