TenantNet Forum

Where tenants can seek help and help others



421-a building, strange certification document

NYC Rent Regulation: Rent Control/Rent Stabilized, DHCR Practice/Procedures

Moderator: TenantNet

421-a building, strange certification document

Postby Nivea21 » Tue May 22, 2018 4:48 pm

My boyfriend just had the last certification meeting before signing a lease for an apartment he got through HUD--a middle income 421-a building. At this meeting, they made him sign a document that said "I swear no one else will live with me".

I have a few questions:
How binding is this?
I plan to spend a lot of nights there, are they going to monitor my movements? What if they claim I am living there? (I have my own place).

Has anyone gotten one of these apartments? Did you have to swear to not live with anyone else? Does Section 235-f of NY Real Property Law apply to these buildings?
Nivea21
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 2:22 pm

Re: 421-a building, strange certification document

Postby TenantNet » Tue May 22, 2018 5:02 pm

We're not familiar with the process here. Usually 421a buildings are owned by private companies. Why would HUD be involved? The 421a is a tax benefit that landlords get in exchange for making certain units "affordable" for a period of time. That's it as far as I know.

As for the document, we can't say if it's legal or not (but of course he won't get the unit if he doesn't sign it). Many LLs force tenants to sign unenforceable documents like this. But the 421a process is usually based on the size of the unit and the number of people in the household, so I can't discount it completely.

In NYS, tenants are allowed to have roommates. See Sec. 235-f of the Real Property Law. https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/real-prope ... 235-f.html. If in doubt, you should consult with a tenant attorney who has experience with both roommates and 421a buildings.

There are several articles on this site that discuss this.

If you sleep-over, that's not living there if you have your own place, but we can't say they won't give him a hassle.
The Tenant Network(tm) for Residential Tenants
Information from TenantNet is from experienced non-attorney tenant
activists and is not considered legal advice.

Subscribe to our Twitter Feed @TenantNet
TenantNet
 
Posts: 9058
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am
Location: New York City

Re: 421-a building, strange certification document

Postby Nivea21 » Tue May 22, 2018 5:04 pm

Sorry, I meant HPD--he won the affordable housing lottery.
Nivea21
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 2:22 pm

Re: 421-a building, strange certification document

Postby TenantNet » Tue May 22, 2018 5:23 pm

That makes sense. He should probably check with HPD on the legality of the document. Even so, sleeping over is not the same thing as being a roommate.
The Tenant Network(tm) for Residential Tenants
Information from TenantNet is from experienced non-attorney tenant
activists and is not considered legal advice.

Subscribe to our Twitter Feed @TenantNet
TenantNet
 
Posts: 9058
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am
Location: New York City

Re: 421-a building, strange certification document

Postby Nivea21 » Wed May 23, 2018 12:54 pm

What's the difference between someone who sleeps over a lot and a roommate?

Is it just whether or not that person pays rent?
Nivea21
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 2:22 pm

Re: 421-a building, strange certification document

Postby TenantNet » Wed May 23, 2018 1:11 pm

In my view (not a legal definition), it's a combination of things such as intent, duration, exchange of money, primary residence and perhaps other considerations.

Having a relative stay in your place for a week over the holidays is having a guest (intent). If a roommate pays money to a primary tenant to use the spare bedroom, that's a landlord-tenant (or subtenant) relationship. Often 30 days is cited at the difference between a temporary stay and a permanent one (and also the difference between a hotel occupant like AirBnB and roommate), and if you still maintain your own residence elsewhere, that's not a roommate even if you keep some items like a change of clothes with the BF.
The Tenant Network(tm) for Residential Tenants
Information from TenantNet is from experienced non-attorney tenant
activists and is not considered legal advice.

Subscribe to our Twitter Feed @TenantNet
TenantNet
 
Posts: 9058
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am
Location: New York City

Re: 421-a building, strange certification document

Postby Nivea21 » Wed May 23, 2018 1:20 pm

Thanks for your reply!
Nivea21
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 2:22 pm

Re: 421-a building, strange certification document

Postby TenantNet » Wed May 23, 2018 1:42 pm

Oh, and also the primary residence indicators ... where you vote, where you file your taxes and so on. But be careful. Even if you do all those other things, if you sleep 6 out of 7 nights a week with the BF, some judge might rule otherwise. The idea is to keep it low on the radar. Why not have the BF stay at your place on occasion?
The Tenant Network(tm) for Residential Tenants
Information from TenantNet is from experienced non-attorney tenant
activists and is not considered legal advice.

Subscribe to our Twitter Feed @TenantNet
TenantNet
 
Posts: 9058
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am
Location: New York City


Return to NYC Rent Regulated Apartments

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests