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Building Sold new owners not cooperative no INFO

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Building Sold new owners not cooperative no INFO

Postby Cylon452 » Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:49 pm

Hello everyone

Our downtown Brooklyn Boerum Hill building was sold around 2/1/2022. The old owners gave us a number to call the new owners which did not go smooth.

I called who i think is the owner(s) but i am not sure. I asked where to send the rent checks. She had to tell me the address 4-5 times because i could not understand her accent it was too thick. But i manager to get the address.
I googled mapped the address and it was an apartment building on the 4th floor. Not an office building. I asked to speak to someone else but she said i couldn't.
She said to speak to Robert. I asked for Roberts last name and number and she wouldn't give it to me. Then she hung up on me. I called back and got an answering machine.

My questions:
Do the new have to contact via Mail and/or email about where to send the rent ?
Did they receive the leases ( RTP-8 ) our from our old building owner ? 3 units are Rent Stabilized. 5 are free market. I am a DRIE tenant.

I need their contact info to certify for DRIE in a year.

I spoke to other tenants today 2/7/2022 and none of them heard anything from the new owners.

I need to know what to do next so i can also help the other tenants. What Legal information do we need from the new owners. Do i need to file a complaint.

Thank you
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Re: Building Sold new owners not cooperative no INFO

Postby TenantNet » Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:08 pm

As you posted in the RS section, I'll assume you are RS. AFAIK, DRIE or SCRIE are just for RS tenants.

New owners are supposed to communicate with you on things like where to send the rent. There is a thing called Notice of Attornment, but it's not applicable in all cases. Just Google that, Notice of Attornment or Letter of Attornment.

If it were me, I would waiting until I got a letter in the mail with the needed information. It's also needed for lease renewal issues, where to complain for repairs and so on. You have every right for all this information.

I wouldn't go looking for a fight, but I would stand my ground.

You should be on the lookout for signs of efforts to get tenants out, perhaps to demolish and build a newer building.

Do some research on the new owners. They might be nice people with communication issues, or they might be the worst landlords in the city. Get to know who you are dealing with. Check the NYC Dept. of Finance ACRIS system for deeds and mortgages.

Check your original lease for any requirements that notices must be by certified mail. I would also write the old owner and ask for the information you need.

Be careful that if you pay rent to the wrong owner the correct owner could come after you claiming rent of which you have already paid.

If you don't already have a tenants association, time to start one.

Are there any pending court cases or DHCR proceedings? The new owner is supposed to file a notice on either of those.
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Re: Building Sold new owners not cooperative no INFO

Postby Cylon452 » Mon Feb 07, 2022 11:35 pm

Yes we have 3 RS units in here. 5 free market have been renovated already in the last 5 years. This building has no structural issues and no violation on the BIS website.
What would be signs of them trying to demolish a stable building or a gut renovation ?
I'll give a general location. It is on Atlantic ave between Court Street and 4th Ave.
Across the street from the old Ex Lax building

No pending court cases and no DHCR proceeding. This building is structurally sound, just needs some brick pointing in the back near the roof. If they try a Demolish how would we stop this including a gut renovation ( which is not needed ).

The old building owners made a duplex on the first floor down to the basement - that's a free market unit renting close to 4,000 per month. the other 4 free market units range from 2,800 to 3,300 per month. The average RS units are 1,400 per month.
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Re: Building Sold new owners not cooperative no INFO

Postby TenantNet » Tue Feb 08, 2022 4:10 am

The general location doesn't help, especially these days as owners are trying to flip buildings all over the city. You asked about BIS ... keep an eye on that for new job applications they might file. But the danger is really in the long-term plans, not that they might have a sledge hammer this week. If they've renovated, that might be a signal that the building itself is not in danger, but no one can really say. Keep your eyes and ears open. I would see if the renovated units might have been deregulated illegally. That's a much longer discussion, any it's only current tenants who can really file with DHCR for a status determination.

From your first post, it sounds like the new owners are just being non-communicative. Some times you just got to force them into talking. Watch for expiring leases and see who is listed as the owner. And new owners often have to be schooled on the forms and timing for new leases. In my mind, a certified letter to the old owner that you've received no notice of sale and that you intend to withhold rent until you receive proper information might prompt a response. Also, 311 calls - when appropriate - for things like lack of heat or repairs will also find their way to someone's desk.
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Re: Building Sold new owners not cooperative no INFO

Postby Sky » Thu Feb 17, 2022 7:34 pm

Despite TenantNet's perfectly sensible annotation from the 'NYC New Owner From Hell' playbook I personally wouldn't get paranoid about the building facing imminent demolition, you can cross that bridge if/when you get to it. Yes, it's a good idea to get the lay of the land when building ownership transfers and to keep alert for any new developments or unusual behaviors.

When my LL changed their office address, I requested a certified letter attesting to that and stating that my rent and other correspondence should be submitted to the new address. You may wish to request that and if the new owner is above board they should be glad to comply: after all if things are clear and official they will get their rent on time without complication or redirection and their business will run smoothy.

You can do an online search on ACRIS to check on ownership status and the like.
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Re: Building Sold new owners not cooperative no INFO

Postby TenantNet » Thu Feb 17, 2022 8:40 pm

Come on Sky, you know me better than that. I was not suggesting the tenant get paranoid or fear imminent demolition. I was suggesting they learn as much as possible about what they LL might be doing. But I would be remiss to to say they should not look at demolition as a possibility. And no, you should not wait to cross that bridge until later. If you get any real evidence something is happening along those lines, now is the time to start preparations, either to oppose or to move.

As Sky suggests, ACRIS is a good place to start to see ownership changes. But it can also be slow in reporting changes, so look for other indicators.
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Re: Building Sold new owners not cooperative no INFO

Postby Sky » Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:43 pm

TenantNet wrote:Come on Sky, you know me better than that. I was not suggesting the tenant get paranoid or fear imminent demolition. I was suggesting they learn as much as possible about what they LL might be doing. But I would be remiss to to say they should not look at demolition as a possibility. And no, you should not wait to cross that bridge until later. If you get any real evidence something is happening along those lines, now is the time to start preparations, either to oppose or to move.

As Sky suggests, ACRIS is a good place to start to see ownership changes. But it can also be slow in reporting changes, so look for other indicators.


TenantNet, perhaps my wording wasn't clear (in addition to my reading: I seem to have overlooked your recommendation of ACRIS). I wasn't suggesting you were advocating for paranoia; rather I saw nothing in the OP's post per se that could be interpreted as suggestive of demolition plans so was warning them from going down that rabbet hole. I'm in agreement that they should learn as much as they can about their present situation and the entity that they have just entered into a business relationship with (i.e. the new owner).

Transfer of building ownership/management can be stressful, particularly in those cases where a gap in communication appears and tenants' imaginations go into overdrive. Presented with with either no communication - a void - or conversely communication of a new and different manner with alien temperaments, personalities, and approaches ... the situation can easily coalesce into a lot of anxiety, fear, and worry. In some cases of ownership its justifiable to worry and there's real concern. But in other cases it's unwarranted. I was simply advocating for a balanced approach.

Along the spectrum of NYC Tenant Paranoia I suppose change of ownership is high up there as a trigger due to the sudden uncertainty. It remains to be seen how things play out in this building.
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Re: Building Sold new owners not cooperative no INFO

Postby TenantNet » Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:10 pm

It's not a rabbit hole; it's a possibility that many people don't even consider ... often until it's too late.

And this constant back and forth can also create anxiety and fear.
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Re: Building Sold new owners not cooperative no INFO

Postby Sky » Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:09 pm

TenantNet wrote:Do some research on the new owners. They might be nice people with communication issues, or they might be the worst landlords in the city. Get to know who you are dealing with. Check the NYC Dept. of Finance ACRIS system for deeds and mortgages.


Once you find the names of the owners, agents, officers, etc. you can search their names and try to find businesses, corporations, LLCs, etc. that they're connected with, or other properties they're associated with (there's a website that shows links between people and properties - who is connected with what properties - which helps give a sense of which people are in business with each other in NY real estate (I forgot what the website URL is, perhaps TenantNet has it). Such info can be useful in understanding business partnerships, family connections, shared management resources, etc.

The HPD website will show your building's registration info when it's submitted (assuming it's done in a timely manner, however sometimes owners fail to renew registration) and that should have some personnel listed.

Once you identify owners and their related business partners you can try a search on ecourts which might pull up lawsuits they were party to in NY. Some of the ecourts cases may include scanned files which may shed some light on the nature of the dispute and reading through that can give you a window into what the individual's MO is. To use a fabricated example, if an owner and his brothers have numerous lawsuits where they're alleged to have engaged in unsavory activity screwing people over, or suing people/businesses and losing (for ex. using lawsuits as a tool of harassment or conversely trying to finagle their way out of legal obligations and commitments) then a track record emerges into how they conduct themselves.

Note however that being party to a lawsuit in itself is not a condemnation as people have legitimate grievances to seek recourse in court; and conversely people are wrongly accused who successfully defend themselves (including many tenants). OTOH, crooked landlords, unsavory characters, and pyschos usually generate a trail of conflicts in their wake.
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Re: Building Sold new owners not cooperative no INFO

Postby Cylon452 » Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:04 am

Hi Everyone

i did some research. The new owners own about 26 buildings some in manhattan and Brooklyn. 1/2 of them have gone thought and Interior Alteration type 2 called A2. Here is what i found on some of their building from the BIS website:

08/19/2021 123712152 03 A2 G PAA FEE DUE 08/19/2021 ALVAREZ NOT APPLICABLE
POST APPROVAL AMENDMENT FOR 01
Work on Floor(s): 001,002 007 thru 018

01/14/2020 123712152 02 A2 P APPROVED 03/16/2020 ALVAREZ NOT APPLICABLE
POST APPROVAL AMENDMENT FOR 01
Work on Floor(s): 001,006,008,009,013,018

08/12/2019 123712152 01 A2 R PERMIT-ENTIRE 05/26/2021 0094457 PE ALVAREZ NOT APPLICABLE
INTERIOR RENOVATION OF APT #S 6, 8, 9, 13 & 18; REMOVAL AND INSTALLATION O
Work on Floor(s): 001,006,008,009,013,018

That is just one building in Brooklyn. Others had the same work. I have no idea if these units were vacant. But it is clear they applied for A2 and was approved. i have no idea if the rent stabilized tenants were evicted of bought out. Each building has their own LLC name. The owners mailing address is the same for all 26 building in upper NYC. Seems they know how to work the system of filing for an A2 and keeping the CO the same. So they do have an history of interior demolition called INTERIOR RENOVATION.

The building i live in was built in 1910 and has 8 units. 3 rent stabilized and 5 free market units so i believe 421a and J51 doesn't apply. 2 of the free market units on the first floor are empty before these new owner purchased this building. in fact they purchased 2 building from the previous LL on the same day. Working on getting to get to know the ACRIS system.

I found them on this website:
https://apps.dos.ny.gov/publicInquiry/EntityDisplay

They also have an address in midtown NYC

since the tenant protection act went into effect these LL now use a loophole to evict RS tenants by filing for an A2 and it gets approved. i always felt when that law went into effect the Building owners tried hard to find a loophole and the State is doing nothing to stop this dirty tactic.

Thanks you all for helping. But if they try an A2 on my building is there anything you can advise me to fight back ?
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Re: Building Sold new owners not cooperative no INFO

Postby Sky » Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:28 am

Cylon452 wrote:1/2 of them have gone thought and Interior Alteration type 2 called A2.

....

since the tenant protection act went into effect these LL now use a loophole to evict RS tenants by filing for an A2 and it gets approved. i always felt when that law went into effect the Building owners tried hard to find a loophole and the State is doing nothing to stop this dirty tactic.

Thanks you all for helping. But if they try an A2 on my building is there anything you can advise me to fight back ?


I'm not following your logic.
When you state, "these LL now use a loophole to evict RS tenants by filing for an A2" what do you mean exactly? Can you be more explicit, what do you perceive as an eviction threat to your tenancy, and why?

It's good that you're doing research to gain additional understanding. I'd cautioned against allowing paranoia too much of a foothold - while at the same time facing facts clearly and being cognizant of possible eventualities.

Crux question: how and why would the LL filing for an A2 in your building result in your eviction?
It could involve construction in units near yours which may be unpleasant to live next to, but that's not eviction. Construction could conceivably could be interpreted - at one end of the spectrum - by someone who is suffering through it as a form of harassment but that's typically subjective unless it crosses some threshold and is defined as such in court.
Your unit is occupied. In all likelihood, the LL is not going to be undertaking A2 work in your unit unless a hazardous situation (i.e. imminently life threatening) exists. If such conditions existed, you'd have a DOB Vacate Order (or Partial Vacate Order) placed on your unit. Anything short of that would be discretionary work and the LL would not be able to perform such work in your unit, at least not without your agreement and approval. Your lease would protect you.
For ex. if the LL wants to add or remove walls in your unit, you say no thank you. Case closed.
He wants to alter the layout? No thank you. Case closed.
He wants to change the dimensions of a closet. No thank you. Case closed.
He wants to do upgrades in vacant units and to do so would require doing some work - requiring a DOB permit - in your unit. No thank you. Case closed. (And he can forget about his dreams of upgrades in other units. Oh, he already went ahead and did them? His problem, not yours. Time for him to dig deep into his pockets to reverse the upgrades and restore the units back to how they were. Not your problem [and enjoy the show ... not every tenant gets personalized high quality free entertainment with satisfying plot twists].

You rented out the unit as is, you have a binding lease. He must maintain it yes, but he cannot change it.
Worst case scenario (well almost ... worst case is something like exterior wall has fatal structural defects and collapses and LL seeks approval to demolish the building)... say for ex. structural defects exist in your apt. and city inspection requires repairs. You'd get an attorney and a relocation agreement would be drafted (at LL's expense) so that you maintain all your rights of tenancy, maintain the layout of the apt., no changes, repairs kept to strict parameters, you live rent free while the repairs take place, you have a return date, and penalties for failure to complete the job by xx date, etc., etc. When repairs are completed (Type A2 or other) you return to a repaired apt. - without any change to layout you happily resume your life where things left off with the added benefit of a deeper understanding of the world of architecture and bureaucratic intricacies of the DOB.

[Note that I am not an architect.]

-Edited for grammar.
Last edited by Sky on Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Building Sold new owners not cooperative no INFO

Postby Cylon452 » Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:12 am

Thank you Sky. Sorry for the delay in a reply. You made a solid case. If anything happens i will you all know.
Also this is good information for others to learn like myself.
This is very valuable information and educational for all RS and Rent controlled units.
In addition you let me and for others who read this know what to do.

Thank you for your time and education SKY and TenantNET. This will help others who come here.
Have a good week SKY and TenantNet.
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Re: Building Sold new owners not cooperative no INFO

Postby TenantNet » Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:07 pm

We're way behind on other projects, which is why we haven't been as attentive as we should be on this forum. In any case, this might be of interest:
https://itkowitz.com/blog/2018/03/new-p ... -rent.html

On this one, we don't have a copy of the decision, but see Cedot Realty Corp. v. Estwanik, NYLJ, March 24, 1995, p. 28, col. 6 (App.Term 1st Dep’t)
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Re: Building Sold new owners not cooperative no INFO

Postby Cylon452 » Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:56 am

Thank you tenant.net and all that replied.
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