TenantNet Forum

Where tenants can seek help and help others



Understanding my rent history

NYC Rent Regulation: Rent Control/Rent Stabilized, DHCR Practice/Procedures

Moderator: TenantNet

Understanding my rent history

Postby beanienyc » Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:58 pm

Hi, I received a COVID deal in June 2021 where on my lease, my rent was legally $3250, but with a few months free, I had a lease rider which has allowed me to pay close to $2700 for a 1 bedroom. My landlord is raising my rent $900, which I believe is legal if the unit is on market. My next door neighbor has a rent controlled unit and has lived in the building for 40 years, she has encouraged me to investigate if the unit is stabilized and I have requested the rent history from DHCR. The building is OLD and has 26+ units.

History:
1984-2011: *REG NOT FOUND FOR SUBJECT PREMISES*
2012: RS-TE 12/14/2016 EXEMPT
2013: *REG NOT FOUND FOR SUBJECT PREMISES*
2014: *REG NOT FOUND FOR SUBJECT PREMISES*
2015: RS-TE 7/29/2015 EXEMPT
2016: RS-TE 12/14/2016 EXEMPT
2017: RS Legal Regulated Rent: 3149.25 Prefer. Rent: 3050.00, VAC/LEAS
2018: RS Legal Regulated Rent: 3149.25 Prefer. Rent: 3050.00
2019: RS Legal Regulated Rent: 3188.64 Prefer. Rent: 3150.00 LEAS/RNL
2020: RS Legal Regulated Rent: 3236.47 Prefer. Rent: 3150.00

The strange thing is that I know my unit was occupied by 2 different supers in the past. One is a current "super" who lives in the related building next door. We do not have a good relationship and I haven't asked any details about the unit. The second one lived in the building 9 years ago, and when he moved in he "renovated" the apartment. It sounds like he lived in the building for 5 years (maybe moved in 2012 and left in 2017).

I plan on trying to ask the other tenant who lived in the unit more recently as well as my neighbor for more insight, but I'm having trouble understanding what the unit would be categorized while either super was living it it (is the rent regulated? is there rent?). It's very frustrating that most years it says *REG NOT FOUND FOR SUBJECT PREMISES* as I'm not sure what to do with that. Additionally, from 2017-2020, it looks like the unit was treated as rent stabilized (the increases + "RS" on the rent history) -- not sure if that's an accurate interpretation, as I've never seen rent stabilized units at this high of a price. Any advice appreciated!
beanienyc
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:41 pm

Re: Understanding my rent history

Postby TenantNet » Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:50 am

You throw many different issues into the mix here and it's always possible one might impact another in unexpected ways.

You posted in the rent regulated section, so I'll assume you're RS. If you're not RS, then everything below does not apply. But understand just because a LL says you're not RS, that does not make it so.

Was the "Covid deal" only a few months of free rent, but not a preferential rent? On the latter, the laws changed in 2019. See Judge Lebovits' outline at "What Lawyers Must Know" Part 1. See how the new laws changed the rules on Preferential Rents.

Also see https://hcr.ny.gov/system/files/documen ... 9-2019.pdf
so if the LL gave you a preferential rent, then that is good for the duration on your tenancy, subject to regular RGB increase on top of the P.R.

It appears a $900 increase would then be illegal. If the building is old, as you say, it would not be a 421-a building, but look for other reasons why things might have changed. Did the LL do renovations that might qualify for J51 tax benefits? Is there a regulatory agreement of any sort? It sounds like those do not apply, but you have to check anyway. I would not ask the LL as they will likely lie to you.

You should have gotten a code along with the rent history, but TE should mean temporarily exempt, like when a super occupies the unit. The unit would return to regular RS status when the super vacates.

In general, there are either temporary exemption (usually super's) and permanent exemptions (in some cases owner's use). TE would return to the rent rolls. Some say that PE might also return, but I'm not looking at that.

As far as I know, a LL cannot just invent a market rent when a super vacates. See these threads: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13978&p=58858#p58857
and
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=13984

and the following from a tenant attorney:

Permanent v Temporary Exemption

DHCR has a list of what is a permanent exemption. According to DHCR, permanent does not mean eternal. If the conditions that allowed a unit to go PE cease to exist, then the unit must return to active RS.

See East West Renovating Co.

http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/ot ... 897-u.html

http://law.justia.com/cases/new-york/ot ... 143-u.html

East West Renovating Co. v. New York State Division of Housing & Community Renewal, 16 AD3d 166 (1st Dept. 2005)

Two additional disputes concerning the four-year rule emerged in 2005. In East West Renovating Co. v. New York State Division of Housing and Community Renewal, 16 AD3d 166, 791 N.Y.S.2d 88 (1st Dept. 2005), the First Department ruled that DHCR can review rent records beyond the four-year period to determine whether an apartment is stabilized. In Ador Realty v. New York State Division of Housing and Community Renewal, 25 AD3d 128, 802 N.Y.S.2d 190 (2d Dep't 2005), the Second Department held that in order to determine whether an owner was entitled to collect a vacancy bonus under RSL §26-511(c)(5-a), DHCR or a court may look at the rental history beyond the four year look-back period.

http://courts.state.ny.us/Reporter/3dse ... _01661.htm


But understand the law changes, and the post 2019 law might treat things differently.

For renovations, I do not believe the a super's personal renovations for his own comfort would qualify as Individual Apartment Improvements (IAI). Those generally have to be done by an outside contractor and between leases. They would also have to have receipts and payments. While maybe the LL paid for materials, chances are the super didn't charge for labor. You need to poke around and get more information on that, but do so quietly.

In some cases, the supers get free rent as part of their payment, but I don't think that enters int your situation.

FYI, yes, there can be RS units at such high (and even higher) rents.
The Tenant Network(tm) for Residential Tenants
Information from TenantNet is from experienced non-attorney tenant
activists and is not considered legal advice.

Subscribe to our Twitter Feed @TenantNet
TenantNet
 
Posts: 10306
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am
Location: New York City

Re: Understanding my rent history

Postby beanienyc » Mon Mar 21, 2022 1:51 pm

My lease said "unregulated apartment" but it's definitely possible that the unit is still stabilized as it does not appear there was a deregulation event and the apartment was registered as stabilized in 2020. Still trying to determine if this is all accurate...

I've attached a screenshot of the (redacted) lease rider attached to my unregulated apartment lease from 2021. If my apartment was supposed to be leased out as a stabilized unit, would this rent deal count as preferential rent? Or is the lease rider considered something else under the law? I can't find anything about discounts on stabilized units that aren't considered "preferential rent".

To my knowledge, there have been no significant renovations or improvements to the building that would qualify the building for tax benefits. I will try to ask my neighbor about this (english is a second language so there is some difficulty there).

Regarding the setting of rent after a temporary exemption, it's hard to determine where they got the number 3149.25 from (the first recorded number in the rent history). Apparently this number IS recorded as "RS" in the rent history, but given no other history exists, I'm wondering if it's an accurate number?
Last edited by beanienyc on Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
beanienyc
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:41 pm

Re: Understanding my rent history

Postby TenantNet » Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:23 pm

Sorry, can't read this - not gonna try. Please post full-size PDF in portrait mode, not landscape, and at least 300 dpi. Post as attachment, not inline image. If it has any personal information on it, please attach it to private mail, not in the public area of the forum.

Is this the rider or the lease (please post both if you can). Much of what you said is repeat of earlier posts.
The Tenant Network(tm) for Residential Tenants
Information from TenantNet is from experienced non-attorney tenant
activists and is not considered legal advice.

Subscribe to our Twitter Feed @TenantNet
TenantNet
 
Posts: 10306
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am
Location: New York City

Re: Understanding my rent history

Postby beanienyc » Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:08 pm

This website will not allow me to upload anything larger than 500x400 pixels, which is very bad quality. I will try to privately message you. Thanks.
beanienyc
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:41 pm

Re: Understanding my rent history

Postby TenantNet » Sun Mar 27, 2022 11:33 am

OK, so looking at the lease you uploaded via Private Mail - this time as a pdf document. Much easier to read. Thank you.

It says Lease for an Unregulated Apartment, but that's meaningless if there is sufficient evidence to establish regulation and lack of proper deregulation. The courts decide, not the LL.

Was the building constructed prior to 1974? Are there 6 or more units in the building (or at any time)? Is it a condo or coop? Was it subject to J51 or 421-a tax abatements? All that you have to look at to say if it should be (or have been) regulated. These are questions that need to be answered.

The rent history says that up to 2016 registrations were exempt or not found. If built prior to 1974, then it should have been registered.

The rider appears to be prepared by the LL, not a DHCR informational rider.

The term "preferential rent" really is tied to rent stabilization. You might get a concession on an unregulated unit, but preferential implies RS status. The 2019 law changed the rules on preferential rents for RS tenants, making it good for the life of the tenancy, and the LL cannot go back to what they call the legal rent until you move out.

It looks like you might have a case to challenge the regulation status, but we don't have sufficient information with the lack of information on the rent history. You don't know if a super lived in the unit, for what dates, if the unit was rehabbed prior to it being deregulated. You don't know when it was constructed, you don't know what the LL will claim for a rent increase - you don't know what the prior rent was before deregulation. And you don't know if they made improvements, what they were and what they cost. A lot of that might come out during a court or DHCR proceeding, but I would try to get a lot more info before filing cases.

At some point I would consult with a tenant attorney, but I don't think you're at that point yet.
The Tenant Network(tm) for Residential Tenants
Information from TenantNet is from experienced non-attorney tenant
activists and is not considered legal advice.

Subscribe to our Twitter Feed @TenantNet
TenantNet
 
Posts: 10306
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am
Location: New York City

Re: Understanding my rent history

Postby Landlords Boy » Mon Mar 28, 2022 12:57 pm

"History:
1984-2011: *REG NOT FOUND FOR SUBJECT PREMISES*
2012: RS-TE 12/14/2016 EXEMPT
2013: *REG NOT FOUND FOR SUBJECT PREMISES*
2014: *REG NOT FOUND FOR SUBJECT PREMISES*
2015: RS-TE 7/29/2015 EXEMPT
2016: RS-TE 12/14/2016 EXEMPT
2017: RS Legal Regulated Rent: 3149.25 Prefer. Rent: 3050.00, VAC/LEAS
2018: RS Legal Regulated Rent: 3149.25 Prefer. Rent: 3050.00
2019: RS Legal Regulated Rent: 3188.64 Prefer. Rent: 3150.00 LEAS/RNL
2020: RS Legal Regulated Rent: 3236.47 Prefer. Rent: 3150.00"

Looks like supers lived there for years until the LL decided to do a total remodel in 2017. Deregulated with the 2017 vacancy lease, as the LRR was above threshhold.
Possibly the LL kept it in the registration system by error, but that wouldn't change its actual status. (Speculation: this might have happened if whoever did the data entry in the on-line registration system skipped the "Exempt Status" tab when inputting the vacancy lease info. After that, the error would simply propagate through following years until corrected.)
Landlords Boy
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:29 am
Location: United States

Re: Understanding my rent history

Postby TenantNet » Mon Mar 28, 2022 1:10 pm

For years? From 1984 through 2011, there's not enough information here to assume anything. You might arrive at that conclusion for 2012 and 2015-2016. We don't even know when the building was constructed. Obviously, if not until 2012, that would explain the lack of registration to that point. We just don't know. Tenants can certainly challenge the IAIs used to calculate the increase up to $3050.00. And, I'm sure LLB knows that just because a rent is above threshold, that does not necessarily mean it's been deregulated. Maybe a tax abatement, or regulatory agreement might have kept the RS status. We don't know.

The tenant should investigate as far as possible before making a complaint. When that happens, the LL will put in their defense, so it's better to know beforehand what they will claim.
The Tenant Network(tm) for Residential Tenants
Information from TenantNet is from experienced non-attorney tenant
activists and is not considered legal advice.

Subscribe to our Twitter Feed @TenantNet
TenantNet
 
Posts: 10306
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am
Location: New York City

Re: Understanding my rent history

Postby Landlords Boy » Mon Mar 28, 2022 1:39 pm

"For years? From 1984 through 2011, there's not enough information here to assume anything."

Your confusion is understandable. Thing is, there isn't any reason for LLs to bother updating their TE apartments' annual registration entries once they are entered in the system, only when they go in and out of TE status.

"I'm sure LLB knows that just because a rent is above threshold, that does not necessarily mean it's been deregulated."

In 2017 it would have been true for a VACANCY lease.
Landlords Boy
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:29 am
Location: United States

Re: Understanding my rent history

Postby TenantNet » Mon Mar 28, 2022 2:35 pm

Not confused at all. There isn't sufficient information to make a reliable conclusion. All units had to be registered initially in 1984 - even the exempt one - just to get them in the system. So it's not a question of whether or not it's worth the bother. And I think even temp exempt units must still be registered yearly. Either way, as I said, insufficient information.

Units can be above the threshold with a vacancy and still be regulated.

Abatements? 421-a is a state program. J51 is a city program. There's also the Private Housing Finance Law (PHFL), but I don't know how that works - or where.

Did the OP say where they were located? This is the NYC rent regulated forum. Regulatory Agreements are more common than you think.

But LLB, before you get into a back-and-forth, the main point is that there's not enough information. He wants to know about the rent history, not 50 variations and exceptions.
The Tenant Network(tm) for Residential Tenants
Information from TenantNet is from experienced non-attorney tenant
activists and is not considered legal advice.

Subscribe to our Twitter Feed @TenantNet
TenantNet
 
Posts: 10306
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am
Location: New York City

Re: Understanding my rent history

Postby beanienyc » Mon Mar 28, 2022 5:42 pm

Thanks for the responses here. As I said in my first post, "my next door neighbor has a rent controlled unit and has lived in the building for 40 years", the building was built in 1920 and has 26 units, it definitely fits the criteria for possibly having rent stabilized (and controlled) units. I'm located in Manhattan.

Additionally, the apartment was 100% not renovated in 2017. It was renovated by the super in ~2012. I'm not sure how they paid for it, but the super has personally told me that he did the renovations while he was living here 9 years ago. The building has not been subject to tax abatements. Hope that clarifies things.

The only other thing I'm exploring is that the unit might have gone by a different number/name when first registered. I ordered the rent history for my guess at what that number would be given how I have to register my utilities and there is a lot more history that I am working through. This may not even been relevant to my issue given that the unit is a different number but still: the odd thing on this rent history is a Permanent Exemption due to "high rent vacancy" in 2006. The rent was only $1781 which would not qualify for high rent vacancy status in 2006 (the threshold was $2000) and the legal rent increase that year was 2.75%, bringing the total rent to 1828.95. There also is some strange history where the rent jumps from $468 to $1337 in 2000 because of "improvements" which is an enormous jump.

Regardless, the most important evidence remains that my apartment unit was registered as stabilized in 2020 and after speaking to that tenant, he did not receive a stabilized lease, which does not add up.
beanienyc
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:41 pm

Re: Understanding my rent history

Postby TenantNet » Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:53 pm

The 2020 registration could have been a mistake. While it's something to consider, that in itselft does not make or break rent stab.

I would look more in depth if they changed the numbering system. If you come up with some evidence of that, then you should ask DHCR for the history of that other unit (same unit, different identification).

Look into the rules of IAI. If the LL or his agent (the super) does it, it might not qualify as an IAI. That's the case for MCI's ... they must be done by someone independent of the LL.

I think LLB edited his piece to remove the reference to Westchester.
The Tenant Network(tm) for Residential Tenants
Information from TenantNet is from experienced non-attorney tenant
activists and is not considered legal advice.

Subscribe to our Twitter Feed @TenantNet
TenantNet
 
Posts: 10306
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am
Location: New York City


Return to NYC Rent Regulated Apartments

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 40 guests