Use of handicap elevator

[jwskatz]

I have a new set of twins and I am unable to get them in and out of my building, in their stroller, without assistance due to the set of stairs. There is a handicap lift in the building which I would like to use. I live in Brooklyn in a rent stabilized building with a security guard/doorman. Some of the guards/doormen will help me with the stroller but others will not. Do I have any legal right to use the handicap lift?

[Chimera]

No, but if you ask nicely maybe they will let you use it.

[HAJ77]

I say if it makes your life easier than use it, it's being paid for with your rent and you have an obvious need to use it.

By limiting it's use to only a certian element of the building's population they are discriminating against other tenants. Plus, to my knowledge there is no law against people using them, it would be like telling everyone they can't walk up the ramp.

[jot0n0]

Have you approach the LL directly to ask for permission to use the lift? If LL agrees, get it in writing to show doormen/guards if they refuse to you allow use of lift. There is no laws requiring LL give use of the lift to non-handicap tenants.

[sabrina]

"By limiting it's use to only a certian element of the building's population they are discriminating against other tenants. Plus, to my knowledge there is no law against people using them, it would be like telling everyone they can't walk up the ramp."

The lift was designed for this "certain element." And what an unflattering way to describe human beings.

The woman stated that she cannot get in and out of the building without assistance. The people who are supposed to use the lift cannot get in and out of the building at all without the lift.

The problem with a ll giving written permission to one tenant to use the lift is that other tenants with equally good reasons can also petition to use the lift. When will it end? The more people who use it, the more it will break down and not be available to those who truly need it because they have no other options.

As a person with a disability let me say that
1. I would be annoyed if I couldn't use the lift because a nondisabled person was using it
2. If asked if I minded if this woman used the lift on occasion, I would probably say go ahead and use it, but please remember why it is here

As with parking spaces for the handicapped, just because the lift is there and not in use doesn't automatically mean that everyone has the right to use it.

[HAJ77]

Perhaps we do not share the same opinion on this issue, but in my opinion telling certian tenants they can not use the lift because they are not disabled is discrimination. It is clearly telling someone that because they are not a memember of the disabled minority they have no right to use equipment that was paid for by their rent.

Imagine if only certian tenants were allowed to use the laundry facility or parking lot based on their race or gender, according to your logic it would be acceptable for the landlord to only allow one gender to wash their clothes and ban an ethnic group from parking their cars.

[Chimera]

Certain types of 'discrimination' are not only acceptable, but are required by law. What is against the law is to discriminate against race, ethnicity, religion and against the disabled.

Sabrina's reason for not allowing the general population to use the lift is a good one. While general use of a ramp does not prevent a handicapped person from using it, general use of the lift might do so. This is the same reason why most people get ticketed for parking in handicap spaces.

Ethnic minorities get scholarships unavailable to caucasians. Women are 'protected' by affirmative action. The handicapped and the elderly are protected by extra housing laws, specifically for them. While certain people may not agree with these laws, they are a form of 'discrimination' sanctioned by our government, and likening them to segregated car washing facilities and parking lots is inaccurate, because some of these practices are against the law, and others are required by law.

[Chimera]

Certain types of 'discrimination' are not only acceptable, but are required by law. What is against the law is to discriminate against race, ethnicity, religion and against the disabled.

Sabrina's reason for not allowing the general population to use the lift is a good one. While general use of a ramp does not prevent a handicapped person from using it, general use of the lift might do so. This is the same reason why most people get ticketed for parking in handicap spaces.

Ethnic minorities get scholarships unavailable to caucasians. Women are 'protected' by affirmative action. The handicapped and the elderly are protected by extra housing laws, specifically for them. While certain people may not agree with these laws, they are a form of 'discrimination' sanctioned by our government, and likening them to segregated car washing facilities and parking lots is inaccurate, because some of these practices are against the law, and others are required by law.

[jwskatz]

I'm glad to see that my question has raised a debate. However, I was really aiming at one specific point. That point being that the law does require a building to be handicap accessible either by ramp or by lift. In older buildings where there is no ramp or lift and a person such as a doorman or guard is present and able to assist the person in and out of the builing, is considered making the building accessible. What I really want to know is don't I become disabled if I am not able to enter and exit my building without assistance,regardless of why I am unable to enter and exit without assistance?
Please don't write that I am insensitive. This is simply a question and not meant to be offensive to anyone who is wheelchair bound or similiar.

[HAJ77]

All that I will say is that sometimes we forget that just because our goverment sanctions or requires a certian action it does not make that action acceptable or correct.

[Chimera]

Philosophically, you have a very good point, HJ. When I used the term 'acceptable' I meant legally acceptable, not that we should blindly accept every rule sanctioned by the government as being in all of our best interests. But for the purposes of the question raised by jwskatz, it is considered legal to deny her access to the handicap lift. Having twins does not create a disability in the eyes of the government, unless they have caused a physical handicap to you.

That being said, jwskatz, why not explain your special situation to management? They might be willing to work with you, and you can't lose anything by politely requesting access to the lift. If that fails, you might want to try tipping the doormen -- a little cash can work wonders.

[Chimera]

(repeat post deleted)

<small>[ February 14, 2003, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: Chimera ]</small>

[Cranky Tenant]

Personally I've never heard of a building that had a single elevator reserved for the disabled. It would be interesting to know how large the building is, and whether it's required by law to have an elecator.

Beyond that, the idea that abled tenants might "wear out" the elevator seems a bit absurd since the LL is required to have the elevator inspected and keep it in working order regardless of who uses it.

[jwskatz]

The building has 90 apartments and was built in 2000. So there are handicap laws that apply. The elevator in question is in the front of the building. There is a set of stairs in front to reach the first floor. The elevator is in front of them. They take you up 1/2 a floor. It is an enclosed lift with a door. Are there laws stating that the elevator must be for handicap use only? If you are just going to speculate please do not. I would like to know the law.

[sabrina]

"Beyond that, the idea that abled tenants might "wear out" the elevator seems a bit absurd since the LL is required to have the elevator inspected"

What is "absurd" about an elevator breaking down from waar and tear? Did you carefully read what I wrote?

Elevators break down all the time and in all types of buildings.

The "LL is required" to do many things. And if more or most LLs did their jobs there would be far less need for tenant.net or this forum.

<small>[ February 14, 2003, 01:16 AM: Message edited by: sabrina ]</small>