Changing access to common area during a lease?

[Jezebel]

Emeraldstar and TenantNet are giving you good advice -- at least look into the possibility that your apartment is not legal -- it happens all the time, and just because the apartment seems to you like any other apartment (and you probably wouldn't have rented it if you thought something was amiss) does not mean that there are not red-flags here.

Help yourself and do your homework -- you can start by searching HPD and DOB for violations at your address. Check the certificate of occupancy -- there are a number of things you can do without moving away from your computer.

Just because you don't believe that you are in an illegal apartment, doesn't mean that you are not. Confirm your belief, and if you're right -- great! If not, the information you find will help form your course of action. But don't dismiss out of hand the suggestions made here about potential illegality -- the suggestions come from pretty knowledgeable and informed sources.

[Emeraldstar]

Hi All
Just for clarity of why I suggested an illegal conversion possibility is that many areas are one and two family zoned however private houses turned into three apts. raises red flags. It's a common occurance in the outer boroughs and currently a hot topic. It does not matter if it was done years ago. Due to overcrowding dangers/deaths covered in the press the DOB has inspected numerous private homes in Queens in one & two family zoning, & discovered many were converted 20-30 + years ago probably to only house an ageing family member. Still it was illegal.
Also as for getting the the idea, your post gives me the impression your apt has a number of doors. Beyond two, front & back, says to me they were rooms at one time.
As a fellow tenant, I just really would like you to be as informed as possiable. You're already in a situation with the bank so you should have all power at your disposial. I wish you the best of luck

[lookingtomove]

Doing some research.

Question

I don't live in NYC, so I don't know that HPD would be relevant here? I can only find HPD in NYC.

[lookingtomove]

news:

i live in an illegal conversion bc no permits were filed by previous LL to convert from commercial space to residential.

thank you everyone for pushing me. And I live in a multple dwelling unit, which means I can withhold rent.

Now...do I contact an attorney? do I just stop paying? do i pay into a trust?

you're going to tell me to research illegal conversions more aren't you?

[TenantNet]

I would find a tenant attorney, not just any attorney. That might be difficult being not within NYC. You need someone who knows the laws where you are.

[lookingtomove]

waiting on a call back from attorney but curious about a couple of things mentioned in my initial conversation.

We could be considered squatters? (Huh? How?)

The health department could step in and kick us out because we are living somewhere that no one has inspected and deemed habitable. (Again, huh? How?)

The attorney said they would check the above, along with other things so it's not that "my attorney said this!!" I'm just curious if this seems right?

[TenantNet]

Do you mean an attorney that you're consulting, or the LL's atty. Do not engage with the LL's attorney until you get your own legal advice on how to proceed.

Never believe a LL attorney.

Squatting is technically "adverse possession" that's something else.

I doubt Health would issue vacancy orders unless violation was immediately hazardous.

[lookingtomove]

An attorney I am consulting with. I am not speaking to LL/management company regarding this.

Trust me, this is not a hazardous illegal apartment.

Thanks for the reply.

[ronin]

No matter how you slice it you are not squatters. You moved in with permission and paid rent.

[lookingtomove]

attorney is telling me this is what will happen. Massive paraphrasing here.

we don't pay rent
we have a three day late window
on day 4, LL starts eviction for non payment of rent
we counter with illegal apartment, they can't do eviction
Judge says, Yep. they can't. Dismisses eviction
LL goes downstairs and files order to vacate
Judge orders us to vacate in 30 days

Attorney says no judge will let someone stay in an illegally converted apartment and we will be ordered to vacate.

Is this right? I'm seeking out a different attorney because this person doesn't seem familiar with illegal conversions at all.

[ronin]

I think that is wrong. The order to vacate part.

Here's how it works in Queens. Eviction dismissed. LL then has to file in Supreme Court for an Ejectment action. Tenant lives rent free for many months or years, LL pays hefty attorney fees. The LL is punished here for renting illegally. Ultimately you will have to move, but absent health and safety issues the LL pays the price for his illegality.


I think if the LL gets an order to vacate they have to house you in a hotel until the condition is fixed....
IMHO

Your best bet is simply to go down to Queens housing court and find out about illegal apartments- you can sit and watch cases. I think you will see 7 or 8 on any given morning in any given courtroom. Queens is best because they do the most illegal basements in the State. Then go find a case in Queens Supreme court and look at the file.

LL's usually get very reasonable after their predicament sinks in and past their greedy bone.

Good luck!

[lookingtomove]

Ronin,

Good tip about Queens, except that I don't live in NYC..or even within 3 hours of anywhere near there.

But seriously, thank you for the info about the order to vacate.