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Changing access to common area during a lease?

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Changing access to common area during a lease?

Postby lookingtomove » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:22 pm

Three family property is currently bank owned due to LL going through foreclosure.

Lease ends next August.

Can bank remove access to common areas that we have had access to for the three and a half years we have lived here? They claim as the new owners that they can. I'm wondering if this is right.

Thanks for any help!
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Postby TenantNet » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:52 pm

Be specific, if this a hallway used for egress? Or is it a common recreation area? What is it? Is it mentioned in your lease?
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Postby lookingtomove » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:55 pm

it is the foyer of the building. The building is a single family home that has been converted to three apartments. We live on the first floor.

We would still have two means of egress but two of our apartment doors will now be locked and we will not have keys to them. We will still have keys to the back door and a third door, leading to the front door of the building. Means of egress is not an issue.
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Postby lookingtomove » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:56 pm

And sorry, no it's not mentioned in the lease. But we have had access to it the full time we have lived here.
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Postby TenantNet » Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:13 pm

A few things here... First, why give the keys back to the LL? Even with two means left, it still might be an egress issue.

Second, for a foyer, I don't think it needs to be mentioned in the lease. It's a means of entry. If it were a recreational room or pool or some other amenity that enticed you to move in, then it should be mentioned in the lease. But even if not, if it can be show an amenity was an enticement, then they can't just remove it during the current lease. On renewal, they might be able to change that.

But this also appears to be an illegal conversion. You should look into that. There are many posts on the forum dealing with that. HPD does not like illegal conversions and you might be able to withhold rent. Do your homework

Banks are poor landlords and don't want to be landlords, so you see why they don't really care about your rights. You may have to knock some sense into them (but be prepared for your lease not to be renewed).
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Postby lookingtomove » Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:22 pm

A rep from the management company accompanied the locksmith today when they tried to do it. We would not be given the keys. We were able to get them to delay until Monday but are adament that what they are doing is legal.

Could you point me in the right direction for the illegal conversion aspect? I will say that this entryway was most certainly an enticement when we rented.

We're fully aware that the lease might not be renewed and are fine with that, considering it's through August of 2012.

Thanks for your help!
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Postby TenantNet » Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:32 pm

Search the site and the Reference area for info on illegal conversions.

If it's illegal, you might have a reasons to withhold rent.

Can you physically prevent them from changing the lock (and that would force them into legal action against you)? And if they are closing it off, then why? Are they planning to do something with that area?

I'd also consider calling 311 and perhaps the fire department.
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Postby lookingtomove » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:10 pm

A quick search leads me to believe that an illegal conversion means they are converting something to a dwelling that is illegal. I don't think this is the issue here.

They want to cut off our access to the common area in order to make whoever rents the second floor have privacy. Why this is an issue I don't really know, but it's certainly less expensive to lock us out than to add walls and doors to the second floor.

I'm not sure the fire department would be able to do anything as we still have two legal means of egress.

From what you've said I think the amenity avenue is the legal one to take since we are in the midst of our lease?

I know it sounds as if I am coming off as ungrateful and I apologize for that. I am very thankful this forum exists. I'm just trying to find the legality of what they are wanting to do. I'm off to do more reading about illegal conversions to make sure.
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Postby lookingtomove » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:15 pm

Based on this:

What is an illegal conversion?
An illegal conversion is the creation of one or more additional dwelling units
within a home without first receiving the approval of, and permits from, the
NYC Department of Buildings. Such conversions often involve the alteration
or modification of an existing one- family or two-family home by adding an
apartment in the basement or attic. Sometimes several dwelling units are
added to a home to create an illegal rooming house.

No, this is NOT an illegal conversion. They are not creating an additional unit, they are removing a common area and adding it to an existing unit.
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Postby TenantNet » Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:00 pm

You misunderstood. Your entire apartment may have been an illegal conversion (or the 3rd unit in the building). You need to check it out.
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Postby lookingtomove » Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:18 pm

Ahh, I get what you are saying now. No, don't think this was an illegal conversion.

Hmmm..though TBH we have had some strange issues. I wonder if permits were proper since the Post Office refused to let the third floor tenants forward their mail, claiming the address was "commercial" not residential.
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Postby Emeraldstar » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:10 pm

Hi All
Just to help what TN is saying and if you understood then forgive me but your post gives the impression of unclear.
When a private house is made into seperate apts frequently it's an illegal conversion. The house owners fail to file for permits to convert because they can't legally due to the zoning regs. Many areas with private homes are one family home zoned which does not permit apts within the house hence, the term a private home. You may find that you had moved into an already illegal apt which you may currently not have to pay rent for. Might be a God send?
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Postby TenantNet » Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:43 am

Well, ES, it's not only zoning regs that could be at issue. In many such instances there are dangerous conditions that might always be apparent. For example, egress issues could create a very dangerous condition. We saw what happened a few years ago in the Bronx when the building divided rooms blocked off egress. If I remember, three firemen died in that blaze.

In many conversions with basement units, there are issues of proper ventilation.

And in many cases there is overcrowding.
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Postby Emeraldstar » Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:01 pm

Hi All
Yes TN a sad day indeed. I think it safe to say thank you for your indepth coverage on conversions and the dangers unsuspecting tenants face in them.
As for the op I'm interested what are the results with/from the bank should conversion be the case? Why would a bank be concerned with "privacy" when so much more may be the case?
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Postby lookingtomove » Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:14 pm

Nothing has happened as yet.

I still do not believe that we are in an illegal apartment. The building was converted decades ago. I'm not sure why people think it's an illegal conversion based on anything I've said?
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